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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 07 May 2014

07 May 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Wealth and Income Inequality

The figure is £100 billion. Mr Harvie must have misheard me. It is more than 50 per cent of the original £200 billion that I mentioned in my initial answer, so it is substantially more than the cost of one mile of motorway. Even the Green Party, which denounces motorways, will realise that the sum is substantially more than that.

We are disappointed with the Scottish Government’s position, because it is suggesting that it would do things completely differently were we to be independent, but from what we have seen on paper we know that that is not true. The Scottish Government has no plans at all to change income tax. Mr Swinney has been at pains to reiterate that point, so the Scottish Government is making no changes to the tax system other than its pledge on corporation tax.

As we found out last week, most of welfare would remain the same. The largest changes that are being made to welfare programmes would remain. Not a single Scottish National Party member was able to contradict that last week. Where the SNP has had a choice and has had the levers and the powers, it has gone for universal benefits almost all the time. If changing inequality was the most important thing to the Scottish Government, it would not have gone for universal benefits on just about every policy measure that it has brought in. There was a large list of them from the minister, and all of them were universal—helping everybody as opposed to helping those whom the SNP claims to want to help.

I want to put on the record some of the conclusions of a report on inequality in Scotland by David Bell and David Eiser of the University of Stirling management school. It is worth noting some of comments that are made in their paper. They accept and point out that gross income inequality is relatively high in the UK, although wealth inequality is less so, but they also point out that most of the growth happened between 1975 and 1990, and that since the mid-90s there has been virtually no increase in net income inequality. At the same time, the Nordic countries that many people on the left want to replicate have seen their inequality increase at a far faster rate than that of the United Kingdom.

It is worth putting those points on the record. We accept that there are issues, but the facts are often not put on the table for the other side.

I move amendment S4M-09926.4, to leave out from “is deeply concerned” to end and insert:

“believes that wealth and income inequality is best tackled by making work pay; understands that such a commitment runs through the ambitions of the UK Government and recognises that, since it came to power, increases to the income tax personal allowance have lifted over three million people on the lowest wages out of income tax; commends the plans for a rise in the minimum wage and welcomes the Chancellor’s commitment to fight for full employment; acknowledges the vital steps that the UK Government has taken to put the nation’s finances in order, and notes that the UK is currently projected to be the fastest growing of the G7 economies”.

References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-09926, in the name of Patrick Harvie. 16:16
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
Green politics begins with a recognition that the ecological and social crises that we face both stem from the same broken economic system, so the Green Part...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
Does the member not acknowledge that the spend on welfare is almost £200 billion out of a budget of about £670 billion, and that it accounts for far more exp...
Patrick Harvie Green
I think that it is far more important than more or less anything else we spend money on to ensure that human dignity is protected and that all people are abl...
The Minister for Housing and Welfare (Margaret Burgess) SNP
There is not a lot in what Patrick Harvie has said that I would disagree with. All of us in the Parliament are concerned about the growing gap between the ri...
Gavin Brown Con
Income tax is clearly important in all of this. What changes would the minister’s Government make to income tax were we to become independent?
Margaret Burgess SNP
There has been lots of evidence about that. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has said that one way to define a tax system is to base it on principle. The bes...
Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister give way?
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind
Will the minister take an intervention?
Margaret Burgess SNP
I give way to John Finnie.
John Finnie Ind
We all have a lot in common on this subject. To what extent does the minister believe that cutting corporation tax and giving breaks to firms such as Amazon ...
Margaret Burgess SNP
That will help because it will make us competitive and get more than 27,000 additional jobs into Scotland, and because we support the living wage and have a ...
Drew Smith Lab
Will the minister give way?
Margaret Burgess SNP
I am sorry; I have taken two interventions already. We have introduced the living wage across the public services that we are directly responsible for. We a...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Not from a Labour Government.
Margaret Burgess SNP
We do not have a Labour Government and, given how Labour is behaving, we are unlikely to get one. In addition, the Deputy First Minister has announced propo...
Drew Smith Lab
Will the minister give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
The minister is in her last 20 seconds.
Margaret Burgess SNP
It is clear—Patrick Harvie is right—that the welfare system is broken and cannot work for Scotland. I hear that I am in my last 20 minutes—Interruption. I m...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to debate wealth and income inequality and I thank Patrick Harvie for bringing the subject to the chamber. I welcome very much the ...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Jackie Baillie Lab
No. We have heard enough from the SNP. There is no guarantee that changing the constitution would deliver the progressive change that would ensure a fairer ...
Margaret Burgess SNP
Jackie Baillie is well aware that we are doing everything that we legally can and that we, as a Government, support the living wage.
Jackie Baillie Lab
That did not sound like a “yes” to me. The SNP is again setting its face against that policy. The minister’s amendment removes the final sentence of the Gre...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
It will have come as no surprise to the Green Party that we are not going to support its motion and that our amendment is of a completely different flavour. ...
Patrick Harvie Green
I am saying it now.
Gavin Brown Con
Patrick Harvie must, as must everyone in the chamber, accept the basic facts about what is spent on the welfare system in the UK. I put the statistics to him...
Annabelle Ewing (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP) SNP
Can Gavin Brown clarify what is spent on pensions?
Gavin Brown Con
As Annabelle Ewing probably knows, something in the region of about 46 per cent of the £200 billion figure that I gave is related to pensions, which leaves m...
Patrick Harvie Green
I am grateful to Mr Brown. I point out to him that the figure of £100 million that he has arrived at is not exactly eye-watering. It is what we would spend o...