Hansard

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con

The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-09926, in the name of Patrick Harvie. 16:16

Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green

Green politics begins with a recognition that the ecological and social crises that we face both stem from the same broken economic system, so the Green Part...

Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con

Does the member not acknowledge that the spend on welfare is almost £200 billion out of a budget of about £670 billion, and that it accounts for far more exp...

Patrick Harvie Green

I think that it is far more important than more or less anything else we spend money on to ensure that human dignity is protected and that all people are abl...

The Minister for Housing and Welfare (Margaret Burgess) SNP

There is not a lot in what Patrick Harvie has said that I would disagree with. All of us in the Parliament are concerned about the growing gap between the ri...

Gavin Brown Con

Income tax is clearly important in all of this. What changes would the minister’s Government make to income tax were we to become independent?

Margaret Burgess SNP

There has been lots of evidence about that. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has said that one way to define a tax system is to base it on principle. The bes...

Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab

Will the minister give way?

John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind

Will the minister take an intervention?

Margaret Burgess SNP

I give way to John Finnie.

John Finnie Ind

We all have a lot in common on this subject. To what extent does the minister believe that cutting corporation tax and giving breaks to firms such as Amazon ...

Margaret Burgess SNP

That will help because it will make us competitive and get more than 27,000 additional jobs into Scotland, and because we support the living wage and have a ...

Drew Smith Lab

Will the minister give way?

Margaret Burgess SNP

I am sorry; I have taken two interventions already. We have introduced the living wage across the public services that we are directly responsible for. We a...

Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab

Not from a Labour Government.

Margaret Burgess SNP

We do not have a Labour Government and, given how Labour is behaving, we are unlikely to get one. In addition, the Deputy First Minister has announced propo...

Drew Smith Lab

Will the minister give way?

The Deputy Presiding Officer Con

The minister is in her last 20 seconds.

Margaret Burgess SNP

It is clear—Patrick Harvie is right—that the welfare system is broken and cannot work for Scotland. I hear that I am in my last 20 minutes—Interruption. I m...

Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab

I welcome the opportunity to debate wealth and income inequality and I thank Patrick Harvie for bringing the subject to the chamber. I welcome very much the ...

John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP

Will the member give way?

Jackie Baillie Lab

No. We have heard enough from the SNP. There is no guarantee that changing the constitution would deliver the progressive change that would ensure a fairer ...

Margaret Burgess SNP

Jackie Baillie is well aware that we are doing everything that we legally can and that we, as a Government, support the living wage.

Jackie Baillie Lab

That did not sound like a “yes” to me. The SNP is again setting its face against that policy. The minister’s amendment removes the final sentence of the Gre...

Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con

It will have come as no surprise to the Green Party that we are not going to support its motion and that our amendment is of a completely different flavour. ...

Patrick Harvie Green

I am saying it now.

Gavin Brown Con

Patrick Harvie must, as must everyone in the chamber, accept the basic facts about what is spent on the welfare system in the UK. I put the statistics to him...

Annabelle Ewing (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP) SNP

Can Gavin Brown clarify what is spent on pensions?

Gavin Brown Con

As Annabelle Ewing probably knows, something in the region of about 46 per cent of the £200 billion figure that I gave is related to pensions, which leaves m...

Patrick Harvie Green

I am grateful to Mr Brown. I point out to him that the figure of £100 million that he has arrived at is not exactly eye-watering. It is what we would spend o...