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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 07 May 2014

07 May 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Wealth and Income Inequality

I welcome the opportunity to debate wealth and income inequality and I thank Patrick Harvie for bringing the subject to the chamber. I welcome very much the approach that he has taken. Labour will support the motion at decision time because he has made the debate about political will and doing what is right and not about constitutional change. I respect him for doing that.

I share the aspiration that is expressed in the motion for

“a fair and successful society”.

I recognise that, to achieve that, we need progressive policies that make work pay and seek to redistribute wealth.

The Labour Party was founded on the principle of sharing wealth to create a more equal society, and that is very much at the heart of all that we do. We are putting in place bold policies to tackle inequality. We have proposals for a progressive system of taxation that would enable those with the broadest shoulders to bear the biggest burden. We propose a freeze on energy prices, as we recognise that struggling families should not have to choose between heating and eating. We also support the introduction of a living wage because we need to make work pay. None of those progressive policies is supported by the Tories—as we would expect—or by the SNP.

We know that costs are rising and wages are declining. A recent Joseph Rowntree Foundation report on minimum income standards tells us that the price of a basket of essential goods has risen by a staggering 25 per cent in the space of five years. Increasingly, people who are in work, as well as those who are out of work, are not making ends meet. I am told that many of the people who are now appearing at food banks are not unemployed but are in low-paid jobs and are struggling to cope before their wages come in.

The SNP’s only answer—as evidenced by the minister’s speech today—irrespective of the question that it is asked, is that independence will cure all ills. It is genuinely disappointing that the minister is not prepared to do anything, but one could say that that is consistent as well as totally lacking in ambition for people in communities throughout Scotland. Like the First Minister, she does not want a Labour Government. At the most recent election, the First Minister suggested that people vote Liberal instead—I am sure that Willie Rennie was grateful for that. What is it about the SNP that means that it does not want to see positive change, not just in Scotland but across the United Kingdom?

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-09926, in the name of Patrick Harvie. 16:16
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
Green politics begins with a recognition that the ecological and social crises that we face both stem from the same broken economic system, so the Green Part...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
Does the member not acknowledge that the spend on welfare is almost £200 billion out of a budget of about £670 billion, and that it accounts for far more exp...
Patrick Harvie Green
I think that it is far more important than more or less anything else we spend money on to ensure that human dignity is protected and that all people are abl...
The Minister for Housing and Welfare (Margaret Burgess) SNP
There is not a lot in what Patrick Harvie has said that I would disagree with. All of us in the Parliament are concerned about the growing gap between the ri...
Gavin Brown Con
Income tax is clearly important in all of this. What changes would the minister’s Government make to income tax were we to become independent?
Margaret Burgess SNP
There has been lots of evidence about that. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has said that one way to define a tax system is to base it on principle. The bes...
Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister give way?
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind
Will the minister take an intervention?
Margaret Burgess SNP
I give way to John Finnie.
John Finnie Ind
We all have a lot in common on this subject. To what extent does the minister believe that cutting corporation tax and giving breaks to firms such as Amazon ...
Margaret Burgess SNP
That will help because it will make us competitive and get more than 27,000 additional jobs into Scotland, and because we support the living wage and have a ...
Drew Smith Lab
Will the minister give way?
Margaret Burgess SNP
I am sorry; I have taken two interventions already. We have introduced the living wage across the public services that we are directly responsible for. We a...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Not from a Labour Government.
Margaret Burgess SNP
We do not have a Labour Government and, given how Labour is behaving, we are unlikely to get one. In addition, the Deputy First Minister has announced propo...
Drew Smith Lab
Will the minister give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
The minister is in her last 20 seconds.
Margaret Burgess SNP
It is clear—Patrick Harvie is right—that the welfare system is broken and cannot work for Scotland. I hear that I am in my last 20 minutes—Interruption. I m...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to debate wealth and income inequality and I thank Patrick Harvie for bringing the subject to the chamber. I welcome very much the ...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Jackie Baillie Lab
No. We have heard enough from the SNP. There is no guarantee that changing the constitution would deliver the progressive change that would ensure a fairer ...
Margaret Burgess SNP
Jackie Baillie is well aware that we are doing everything that we legally can and that we, as a Government, support the living wage.
Jackie Baillie Lab
That did not sound like a “yes” to me. The SNP is again setting its face against that policy. The minister’s amendment removes the final sentence of the Gre...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
It will have come as no surprise to the Green Party that we are not going to support its motion and that our amendment is of a completely different flavour. ...
Patrick Harvie Green
I am saying it now.
Gavin Brown Con
Patrick Harvie must, as must everyone in the chamber, accept the basic facts about what is spent on the welfare system in the UK. I put the statistics to him...
Annabelle Ewing (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP) SNP
Can Gavin Brown clarify what is spent on pensions?
Gavin Brown Con
As Annabelle Ewing probably knows, something in the region of about 46 per cent of the £200 billion figure that I gave is related to pensions, which leaves m...
Patrick Harvie Green
I am grateful to Mr Brown. I point out to him that the figure of £100 million that he has arrived at is not exactly eye-watering. It is what we would spend o...