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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 07 May 2014

07 May 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Energy and Climate Change

They are two different processes, as Ms Johnstone herself pointed out when she complained that one can move easily to the other in the regulatory framework.

Secondly, although the UK Government rates incentive in England seems a rather blunt instrument, we should be careful not to dismiss the idea of community benefit were onshore extraction ever to proceed. After all, we accept the idea that there should be community benefit from onshore wind and opencast coal mining, so perhaps we should not dismiss it out of hand in this case.

Primarily, though, we cannot support the motion’s core proposal for an outright ban. Of course, as the Green motion says, we have to meet our targets under the Climate Change (Scotland) Act 2009, and the Labour amendment makes that clear. However, we have to take the public with us, and that means being able to demonstrate how we will secure our energy supply as we transition to a balanced but decarbonised energy economy.

In a recent briefing in the Parliament, Professor Lunn of the University of Strathclyde demonstrated that, even if all the renewables targets to which Mr Swinney referred are met by 2020, there will still be a 13 gigawatt hour gap in energy production. Central to those figures is the loss of base-load generation and the fact that 40 per cent of energy consumption is currently gas-fired heating. Cockenzie is closed, Peterhead is two-thirds mothballed, and Longannet might be at the mercy of new European Union directives. The replacement of Torness and Hunterston is currently vetoed by ministers. Commercial carbon capture seems further away than we had hoped. It is not clear where our future base-load is coming from.

Meanwhile, investment in offshore wind projects is, at best, delayed, for whatever reason, and we have also seen significant withdrawals from marine power projects. We urgently need a hard-headed, realistic, and comprehensive plan for how we transition to a decarbonised energy market while protecting the security of energy supplies, including but not only electricity generation.

Having closed down the eminently sensible option of another generation of nuclear power, we are in no position to shut down another potential energy source, especially when we do not have the scientific evidence for what reserves are available. We should, however, proceed with great caution, hence our consistent support for stronger planning guidelines for shale gas extraction. Nor should we allow ourselves to be taken in by the idea that shale gas is a panacea that will cut energy costs. Alison Johnstone’s motion is right about that, and that is one reason why we cannot support the Tory amendment this afternoon. Cutting energy bills needs reform of the market and action on excessive profits by the big six companies.

We should also not forget that shale gas is an industrial feedstock as well as an energy source. It is not so long since the Parliament supported a deal that kept the Ineos plant at Grangemouth open. That deal is exactly about using shale gas as raw material in a manufacturing enterprise that is of economic significance to this country. That fact was made very clear to us when we saw the impact that the temporary closure of Grangemouth had on gross domestic product figures for that quarter.

The Government’s amendment founds on planning policy that we have not yet seen, and the Government refuses to face up to the fact that it continues to miss all its world-beating climate change targets. However, with regard to the crux of the debate, which is how to proceed, our position is similar to the Government’s, so if by some curious and unexpected twist of parliamentary arithmetic, the Government’s amendment survives and ours falls, we will support the amended motion in the final vote. However, we prefer our own amendment and will prefer it in the first instance tonight.

I move, as an amendment to motion S4M-09927, to leave out from “opposition” to end and insert

“concern in relation to fracking and calls on the Scottish Government to introduce robust national guidelines for all forms of unconventional gas extraction; agrees that unconventional gas extraction would not drive prices down for hard-pressed consumers, rendering a price freeze and reform of the energy market urgent; believes that renewable energy as a growing part of a diverse energy mix makes Scotland’s energy supply more secure and provides new jobs and businesses in the renewable energy sector as well as helping Scotland hit its carbon reduction targets; supports new community ownership models to help Scotland meet its renewable energy targets, benefit local economies through the creation of green jobs and address the threat of fuel poverty, and believes that Scotland must develop an energy policy that balances its energy needs with its climate change and carbon reduction targets as it is essential that the Scottish Government meets its targets under the Climate Change (Scotland) Act 2009.”

15:33
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-09927, in the name of Alison Johnstone, on energy and climate change. 15:11
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
It is generally agreed that our energy policy should deliver three things: a secure supply; energy at an affordable cost; and energy that is low in climate-c...
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Employment and Sustainable Growth (John Swinney) SNP
I welcome the debate that the Green Party has initiated today on energy and climate change. It provides an opportunity for us to consider the range of measur...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Mr Swinney knows that I agree with him on the importance of the oil and gas sector. Can he enlighten us as to when he intends to bring forward his revised es...
John Swinney SNP
I told Parliament that I would bring those forward in the coming weeks and that is exactly what I intend to do to assist the debate. While we recognise the ...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
In view of recent announcements by electricity companies about the offshore renewables sector, does the cabinet secretary share any of my concerns about how ...
John Swinney SNP
I certainly do not think that the uncertainty that has been created by the electricity market reform process undertaken by the UK Government has helped inves...
Alison Johnstone Green
Although it may be possible to prove that extraction is safe, it simply will not be possible to prove that burning the fuel that is extracted is safe. Does t...
John Swinney SNP
The key point that I would make to Alison Johnstone is that all these issues must be considered within our framework to reduce climate change. I have just co...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
I advise members that there is no extra time available this afternoon, so interventions should be contained within speeches. 15:28
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I start by congratulating Alison Johnstone on bringing the debate to the chamber, because it is an important and current policy issue that, until now, we hav...
Alison Johnstone Green
Is Iain Gray aware that, in areas where unconventional gas extraction occurs, coal-bed methane extraction leads to hydraulic fracturing in 40 per cent of cases?
Iain Gray Lab
They are two different processes, as Ms Johnstone herself pointed out when she complained that one can move easily to the other in the regulatory framework. ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I thank the Scottish Greens for giving us the opportunity this afternoon to debate the extraction of unconventional gas throughout Scotland. I commend Alison...
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Murdo Fraser Con
No, thank you. When we actually look at public opinion, we see that not everyone is buying that nonsense. According the latest DECC public opinion tracker, ...
Alison Johnstone Green
Will the member give way?
Murdo Fraser Con
No, I need to make some progress. We should remember that there is nothing new about fracking for shale gas and extracting coal seam gas in Scotland. Back i...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We come to the open debate. We are very tight for time, with speeches of a maximum of four minutes. 15:38
Rob Gibson (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) SNP
As it says in the Scottish National Party amendment, “Scotland has a rich diversity of energy sources including a very successful oil and gas sector and gr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I am afraid that you must close now.
Rob Gibson SNP
A recent poll for DECC showed that 50 per cent of Tories would rather live near a wind farm than have fracking in their back yard. Many more people across Sc...
Margaret McDougall (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As stated in Labour’s amendment, Scotland needs a robust and balanced energy policy that strives to match our energy needs with our climate change and carbon...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the Scottish Government’s precautionary approach to hydraulic fracturing and unconventional gas extraction and, therefore, I have some sympathy—but...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind
Will Mike MacKenzie take an intervention?
Mike MacKenzie SNP
No—I am sorry but I am short of time. For instance, I was disappointed to hear Patrick Harvie dismiss in a recent debate the opportunity presented by carbon...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
Will Mike Mackenzie give way?
Mike MacKenzie SNP
No, I am not taking interventions because I am short of time. Interruption. Sorry—another occasion, Mr Harvie. In acquiring the expertise to develop world-...
Marco Biagi (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) SNP
To members of the Economy, Energy and Tourism Committee, this is a very familiar topic, although we are used to seeing Murdo Fraser curb his great enthusiasm...
Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I am pleased to close the debate for the Scottish Conservatives. A number of members have rightly referred, as does our amendment, to the importance of ener...