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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 March 2014

25 Mar 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Young and Novice Drivers and Graduated Driver Licensing
Stevenson, Stewart SNP Banffshire and Buchan Coast Watch on SPTV

I declare an interest: I am a member of the Institute of Advanced Motorists. I first took my IAM test in 1972, and I took it again more recently, in 2008.

The IAM’s credo is:

“We passionately believe that our roads can be made a safer place by improving the standards of the people who are using them.”

That is a good place for this debate to be and every contributor so far has sought to take us there. I am delighted that David Stewart is here to take part in the debate. I know that he is passionately in favour of improving standards on our roads and I admire everything that he has done in this area.

Let us have a look at the context. When I first passed my test in a car, 51 years ago in 1963, a Mini Cooper S cost £777 and it had 70 brake horsepower and a top speed of 95mph. Today, a Mini Cooper S costs £21,000—which is almost exactly the same amount relative to average earnings—but it now has 184bhp and is capable of 143mph. So, the simple and straightforward test that I passed in 1963 is not necessarily the test that I should pass to drive the much more powerful and potentially much more dangerous cars that we have today.

The first car that I owned a share in was a 1928 Austin 7, with a top speed of 28mph—it could not even break the town’s speed limit. It cost £5, by the way, and came complete with a spare engine. Like Alex Johnstone, I drove that car around unlicensed and uninsured and off the public road—or at least that is what I am telling you here. I started driving as a 12-year-old and acquired the skills very rapidly, but I did not have the experience to allow me to engage with what goes on on the public highway.

The Transport Research Laboratory, which works with over 100 countries, suggests that there could be quite a wide range of savings from GDL—from as few as 2,200 casualties to as high as nearly 9,000, so more work needs to be done. It suggests 100 hours of supervised learning over 12 months.

Let me compare flying with driving. As a private pilot, I went solo after 12 hours of instruction, and 40 hours of instruction was necessary to get my licence. That did not allow me to fly at night or out of sight of the ground, and one has to do training for complex equipment. One needs five hours for a night rating, 15 hours for an instrument rating and a further five hours for a multi-engine rating. There is graduated experience and training. I am not allowed to carry passengers unless I have done three landings and take-offs in the past 90 days, and I have a medical every year and an electrocardiogram every two years. It is tightly regulated. I do not think that people would want to fly with a pilot who did not perform to such standards. By the way, one can start flying as a 12-year-old, so I think that Alex Johnstone’s point about starting to drive at an earlier age has some merit.

It is worth considering, however, what kind of risks one is exposed to when flying. One will very rarely bump into another aircraft—there are not all that many of them. In the UK, it would be an unusual occurrence for there to be more than 600 aircraft in the air at any one time. On the roads, if one travels at 70mph on the dual carriageway, one passes within feet—at a closing speed of 140mph—of other drivers, and one wants them to be well trained and well equipped to deal with conditions on the roads.

For flying, the blood alcohol limit is one quarter of what it is on the roads. In addition, one is not allowed to fly until eight hours after one’s last drink. There are measures that we could look at in relation to driving.

I close by quoting Marilyn Monroe, who said:

“If you can’t handle me at my worst then you don’t deserve me at my best.”

That leads me to something for this debate. The issue is not about raising the standards that our best drivers can achieve; it is about raising the floor below which our least proficient drivers never fall.

14:49

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-09447, in the name of Keith Brown, on young and novice drivers and graduated driver licensing. I will all...
The Minister for Transport and Veterans (Keith Brown) SNP
When the Government published Scotland’s road safety framework, one of the priorities that we set out concerned young drivers who are aged 17 to 25. Young pe...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I know that the minister is familiar with the research from Dr Sarah Jones of Cardiff University, which is mentioned in the Labour amendment, but the evidenc...
Keith Brown SNP
I am indeed familiar with it, and I am happy to support the Labour Party amendment, but the latest figure that we have from Sarah Jones is 19. Obviously, tha...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
Can the minister tell members exactly what he defines as GDL?
Keith Brown SNP
I was just going to talk about the different GDL systems around the world, which have different characteristics. If the UK Government does not want to take t...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate, which is primarily about road safety and reducing the number of injuries and fatalities on roads across Sco...
Keith Brown SNP
Mark Griffin says that more can be done. Of course, more can always be done. However, I hope that he recognises that the number of young drivers who are kill...
Mark Griffin Lab
We acknowledge the drop. I simply flag up the recommendations that were made in the 2011 report, and I ask for a progress update. A further recommendation i...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
One of the great things about the Parliament is that we have a diversity of members. Although we might look the same and have similar experiences in some are...
David Stewart Lab
Does the member acknowledge the statistic that one in five newly qualified drivers crashes within six months, and that they tend to be men aged under 25 on r...
Alex Johnstone Con
Indeed I do. There are a number of reasons for that, not least the fact that many young men are overconfident. They are perfectly able to drive sensibly when...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I declare an interest: I am a member of the Institute of Advanced Motorists. I first took my IAM test in 1972, and I took it again more recently, in 2008. ...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful to have been given the chance to contribute to the debate and I rise to support the Government motion and Mark Griffin’s amendment. I am fairl...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
I ask the member to draw to a close, please.
Graeme Pearson Lab
I leave other members to add to the debate, but the issue is important, and we should keep it in mind. 14:55
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
As the convener of the cross-party group on accident prevention and safety awareness, I am particularly pleased to speak in this important debate. The cros...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
Like Alex Johnstone and Stewart Stevenson, I learnt to drive at a young age off the public road. In my case, it was on a farm. I agree with a lot of the anal...
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
I declare an interest, in that the business that I own, which is now run by my son, is a supplier to the accident damage industry. We supply throughout Scotl...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I am afraid that you must conclude.
Gil Paterson SNP
Whatever we come up with, before we make a final judgment on it we must take into consideration the fact that, in rural settings, driving a car can mean havi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I am afraid that I have to tell the next two speakers that they have only up to five minutes. 15:11
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I have been an advocate for the introduction of a form of graduated driving licence for young and new drivers since early 2010 because, after a double fatal ...
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP) SNP
The Parliament has, undoubtedly, debated matters of greater significance than this one, and I suspect that we will be lucky if this part of today’s business ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We turn to the closing speeches. I call Alex Johnstone, who has up to five minutes. 15:20
Alex Johnstone Con
It has been an extremely interesting and high-quality debate in which we have heard a range of ideas, including some quite original ones. However, the key pr...
Stewart Stevenson SNP
Would Alex Johnstone consider the suggestion that people should be unable to take their test until their instructor says that they are sufficiently trained t...
Alex Johnstone Con
I believe that that would be an appropriate way to go forward. Again, however, I emphasise that the testing process appears to be incapable of identifying th...
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab) Lab
In closing the debate for Labour, I am pleased to support the Labour amendment and the Government motion, but we will not support the Conservative amendment....
Keith Brown SNP
I agree with James Kelly that, in general, the debate has been constructive and that speeches have been high quality. I will try to refer to those speeches. ...