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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 10 December 2014

10 Dec 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Smith Commission
Swinney, John SNP Perthshire North Watch on SPTV

That is a point to be regretted. However, the fact that the Secretary of State for Scotland made it clear in his meeting with the First Minister last Thursday that he would make representations within the United Kingdom Government to determine whether something different could be done to change Mr Duncan Smith’s mind has given me hope. I hope that that is successful.

The third difference between the Government’s amendment and the Conservative motion is the last part of that amendment, which proposes that the Parliament

“welcomes the contribution of stakeholders and the public to the work of the commission, and recognises the need for continuing meaningful public consultation and engagement to ensure the credibility of the process in Scotland.”

That is important for the very simple reason—I think that I went through this in my reply to Miss Goldie after my statement on the Smith commission report last week—that a whole host of organisations made their submissions in good faith to the Smith commission on what they would like to be devolved and they have not had those wishes fulfilled in what the Smith commission concluded. It is now important that we engage constructively and actively with the stakeholder community in Scotland to ensure that we properly reflect its concerns and aspirations as we take forward the legislation.

Those are the reasons why the Government has taken the stance that we have taken. However, there is one other point that I want to make. We have covered some of this already. The Conservatives quite understandably want to move the debate on to what we would do with the powers. I am, of course, very happy to debate and discuss what we would do with them, but there is a stage before we get to that: the implementation of those powers. There is the actual translation of all the agreement into legislative form.

It would be a sign of good faith if the United Kingdom Government was prepared to engage constructively about early implementation of the provisions. To say to people in the referendum, “Look you can vote no and you will get change quicker than you’ll get Scottish independence” and everyone was—

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-11830, in the name of Ruth Davidson, on the Smith commission. 14:40
Ruth Davidson (Glasgow) (Con) Con
The Smith commission process was a remarkable feat of fast-forward constitutional reform. As this Parliament debates the commission’s verdict for the first t...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Ruth Davidson Con
If the two gentlemen can decide between themselves, I will give way to one.
Stewart Stevenson SNP
Like the member, I very much welcome the new powers for this Parliament. Does she assert that we will be more powerful than the provinces of Canada, the stat...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Your point is?
Stewart Stevenson SNP
Can the member tell us of any tax in any of those places that we cannot assert? She will not have to look very far.
Ruth Davidson Con
I welcome the member’s welcome for the Smith commission powers and tell him that I do not need to assert anything. As I said on Thursday during First Ministe...
Rob Gibson (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Ruth Davidson Con
Not at this time. Let us look at the timetable for the transfer of powers. We know that the draft clauses that flesh out the heads of agreement will be prod...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Economy (John Swinney) SNP
Will Ruth Davidson set out whether all the proposals need to be delivered in one legislative instrument or whether there is an argument to continue, as she s...
Ruth Davidson Con
If we use the Scotland Act 2012 as our template for constitutional change, we will have a single legislative instrument—a single act—that transfers powers at...
Mark McDonald (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
Will Ruth Davidson give way?
Ruth Davidson Con
Not at this time. The SNP would be unwise in the extreme to place roadblocks in the way of that development or to create straw men to knock down. The SNP’s...
Jim Eadie (Edinburgh Southern) (SNP) SNP
Will Ruth Davidson give way?
Ruth Davidson Con
I have a long list and I am still going, so I will not give way at this point. The devolution of the work programme—the largest welfare-to-work programme in...
Mark McDonald SNP
Will Ruth Davidson give way?
Ruth Davidson Con
I look forward to any SNP MSP proving me wrong by having the good grace to stand up and say that that package of powers is significant. That includes Mark Mc...
Mark McDonald SNP
We have made it quite clear that we welcome new powers coming to this Parliament, but Ruth Davidson must accept that a range of organisations from civic Scot...
Ruth Davidson Con
I reject that entirely. The Smith commission took submissions from people right across the land. For example, it took a submission from the Institute of Char...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Ruth Davidson Con
I want to make progress. From Labour and the SNP, for example, we already hear calls to increase income taxation. That will be their choice and one that the...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Economy (John Swinney) SNP
I seem to have offended Ruth Davidson in the formulation of the Government’s amendment and in my comments on this subject. However, I find it rather strange ...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
John Swinney SNP
Perhaps Mr Brown will explain why the Conservatives are not prepared to get on with it.
Gavin Brown Con
Let us just assume for a moment that APD was devolved tomorrow. What would the cabinet secretary do with it?
John Swinney SNP
Let us go back to the white paper, which said that we would halve APD. We would halve it over time before 2020 and then move to abolish it. That is taking th...
Dennis Robertson (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP) SNP
Is the cabinet secretary as disappointed as I am to have heard that Iain Duncan Smith has already said that he is not prepared to change his mind with regard...
John Swinney SNP
That is a point to be regretted. However, the fact that the Secretary of State for Scotland made it clear in his meeting with the First Minister last Thursda...