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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 18 November 2014

18 Nov 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Drink-drive Limit
McInnes, Alison LD North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

The current drink-drive limit was set in 1965. Since then, I am glad to say, perceptions have changed. Public and scientific understanding of the risks has increased dramatically. However, for many folk there is still some confusion as to what the existing limit allows. Is it a pint or a glass of wine? What constitutes a unit, and how many can someone have and still drive legally?

In future the message could not be clearer: if you have had even one drink, you should not drive. The evidence is irrefutable. Drinking even a small amount deteriorates drivers’ reaction times, concentration and motoring skills. It can instil false confidence, impair co-ordination and weaken the judgment of factors such as distance and speed.

As we have heard, the number of drink-drive accidents and casualties has halved in recent years. However, the latest Transport Scotland data shows that there were 440 drink-drive accidents in 2012, causing 580 people to be injured and 10 fatalities.

A 2010 study by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence found that drivers intoxicated to the existing limit, 80mg, were 11 times more likely to be involved in a fatal car crash than drivers who had no alcohol in their blood. Reduced to 50mg, that falls to three times as likely. In short, drinking at all increases the chance of a collision.

Why not adopt a zero-tolerance approach, then? Ideally, no one with alcohol in their system would get behind the wheel. However, we understand that that would cause practical and technical difficulties.

A study by University College London estimates that reducing the limit to 50mg would still prevent 65 deaths and 250 serious injuries a year if adopted across the UK. The evidence from Ireland is that it will encourage a culture change that will deliver year-on-year improvements. That in itself is a great step forward. I hope that the rest of the United Kingdom follows Scotland’s lead.

I cannot support the Conservative amendment. I am afraid that Margaret Mitchell did not set out a coherent case for it. The mandatory penalty, which is to lose one’s licence for 12 months, is still proportionate for the new level that we are introducing. Of course, judicial discretion allows for exceptional circumstances.

The Justice Committee took evidence on the issue a couple of weeks ago. Chief Superintendent lain Murray was clear in his evidence to us. He said that lowering or varying the penalty based on the amount of alcohol consumed would reduce the deterrent effect and that we should not take account of

“whether somebody was three times or six times more likely to kill themselves or somebody else.”—[Official Report, Justice Committee, 28 October 2014; c 40.]

He was very firm in his view that we should have a single penalty.

Getting the message across to every single driver that there is no safe amount that they can drink before taking control of a vehicle will arguably require the most extensive driver education campaign ever. I have some concerns about whether that can be achieved in just two and a half weeks.

I am sympathetic to Labour’s amendment, and I wonder whether the impact of alcohol on drivers the next day needs to be more prominent in the publicity material. How many people know that it can take roughly 13 hours to be alcohol free after drinking four pints of strong lager or ale? As Dr Rice alluded to in his evidence to the committee, it is still a common misconception that coffee, sleep, a shower, exercise or a full Scottish breakfast will speed up the removal of alcohol from one’s system. It does not.

I support the “Don’t drink and drive” approach, but it must be accompanied by sufficient education so that we can reach the zero-tolerance approach.

We are able to modify the drink-drive limit using the significant powers devolved through the Scotland Act 2012. Steered by the Liberal Democrat Secretary of State for Scotland Mike Moore, it is testament to our commitment to strengthen the powers of this Parliament. Scottish Liberal Democrats will always support evidence-based efforts to make our roads safer and to save lives; we will therefore back the motion.

16:08  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-11567, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, on lowering the drink-drive limit.
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill) SNP
Members will be aware that the Scottish Government has long argued that a lower drink-drive limit will save lives and help to make Scotland’s roads safer. So...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I say at outset that Scottish Labour supports the motion. I will speak to the amendment from Scottish Labour. We have no reservations in our support for the...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
Does the member share my view that we should introduce a graduated driving licence scheme for young drivers? The member will know that the proposal is that n...
Graeme Pearson Lab
The member makes an important point, and I would support that proposal. I was at Stranraer academy yesterday and that very issue was raised out of the blue. ...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
The Scottish Conservatives support initiatives to make Scotland’s roads safer. The pain, heartache and devastation that the victims—and their families—of dru...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Excuse me, Ms Mitchell. Sandra White has a point of order.
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Could Margaret Mitchell please mention the motion and the amendment that she is speaking to? I have not heard anythin...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Thank you for that request for a point of order, but it is not a point of order. The words that Margaret Mitchell chooses to use are a matter for her.
Margaret Mitchell Con
I suggest that Sandra White should listen carefully—she has obviously lost the thread of the argument. Those reports highlight perceived pressures on police...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Margaret Mitchell Con
I will do in a minute, if Elaine Murray does not mind—I just want to complete this point. The SPA report identified evidence that “officers perceive a pres...
Elaine Murray Lab
Could Margaret Mitchell clarify the intention of her amendment? As I read it, the suggestion that the application of penalties for exceeding the drink-drivin...
Margaret Mitchell Con
I will come to that point specifically, if Elaine Murray will allow me to develop my argument. Furthermore, the cabinet secretary has emphasised—as does the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We move to the open debate. Speeches should be of four minutes, and there is time for interventions. 15:49
Dave Thompson (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) SNP
I am delighted to be taking part in the debate because, as the Cabinet Secretary for Justice said, I have been campaigning to have the drink-driving limit re...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate and voice my support for the lowering of the drink-driving limit. Sir Peter North’s report indicated that th...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
The recalibration of the breathalyser happened last year. It is very important because the power is reserved, and I think that it would be a great improvemen...
Dr Simpson Lab
I am in favour of that area being devolved appropriately so that we can cover all aspects. We already cover some of them. Do our Scottish courts have the po...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
I commend Dave Thompson for his tenacity and the work that he has carried out over the years to bring this change to fruition. I thank him very much for that...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
The current drink-drive limit was set in 1965. Since then, I am glad to say, perceptions have changed. Public and scientific understanding of the risks has i...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Drink driving has been a scourge on Scotland’s roads for too long, leading to completely unnecessary injuries and deaths, and devastating families and commun...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
As a veteran road safety campaigner, I very much welcome the debate this afternoon and, of course, I will be supporting the Scottish Government’s motion. I ...
Dave Thompson SNP
Does David Stewart agree that, to deal with the full range of issues, we need all the powers relating to the matter to be devolved to the Parliament?
David Stewart Lab
I welcome the work that Dave Thompson has done on drink driving. As Dr Richard Simpson mentioned, there are strong arguments for devolving day-to-day adminis...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I will address both amendments. The first one—Graeme Pearson’s—is absolutely fine and dandy. In fact, a great deal of the committee conversation and interrog...
Christine Grahame SNP
No, I have only four minutes. I want to support Margaret Mitchell’s amendment but she will need to clarify what it means, for goodness’ sake. The committee ...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Reducing the drink-drive limit is important, and I fully agree with the motion and the Labour Party’s amendment. The UK currently has the highest drink-driv...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
As already stated, a drink-driving limit has been in place since 1965. Since then, social attitudes towards those who drink drive have changed; they have cha...
Margaret McCulloch (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Reducing the drink-drive limit will make Scotland’s roads safer. We all know that alcohol affects a driver’s judgment and reaction times, and that the risk o...