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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 05 November 2014

05 Nov 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Living Wage

It gives me great delight to open this debate on the living wage on behalf of the Labour Party. Labour wants to use this debate to promote living wage week, to welcome the new rate of £7.85 an hour and to enable the Parliament to discuss how we can take forward this issue so that we can ensure that more people in Scotland are paid the living wage.

The report that was produced by KPMG at the start of this week details the fact that 413,000 people in Scotland are not currently paid the living wage—they are paid the minimum wage or greater, but not the living wage. That shows that we have some way to go in order to lift those people out of property. The £7.85 living wage is what is reckoned to be required to allow a family to be provided for decently and adequately. We need to strive to do more. Some 64 per cent of those 413,000 people are women. More than 250,000 women are not paid the living wage, 150,000 of whom are between the ages of 16 and 24. Those are key groups in our society.

The issue is not just about statistics; it is about real people—the cleaner in Cambuslang, the care worker in Carnoustie—who are struggling to bring up their families with the added burden of rising food and energy prices, and who are trying to get by on a wage that is not adequate.

The focus of this debate must be on what we can do to move the situation forward. I will begin with the Scottish Government. The Scottish Government has put itself forward as an enthusiastic supporter of the living wage. However, earlier in the year, when it was given the opportunity through the Procurement Reform (Scotland) Bill to extend the living wage to everyone on public contracts, SNP members voted that down. That was a hammer blow to the over 400,000 people who are not paid the living wage. It was a missed opportunity given the £10 billion purchasing power of the Scottish Government, which means that it can influence companies to pay the living wage.

The reality now is that, as well as some of the companies to which the Scottish Government awards contracts not paying the living wage in Scottish Government locations, cleaners at Atlantic Quay and in Scottish prisons are not being paid the living wage. The Scottish Government must address that issue. If it wants to brand itself as a serious supporter of the living wage, it needs to ensure that everyone in Scottish Government locations is paid the living wage. That should be an absolute priority.

Earlier in the year, we heard that that was not possible because it would be subject to a legal challenge. I said at the time that, frankly, that was a smokescreen, and the more the issue develops, the more that is becoming clear. Only last week, the Department of Energy and Climate Change announced that all its workers and—crucially—all its subcontractors will be paid the living wage. We are always hearing from the SNP about big, bad Westminster but I question why a big, bad Westminster department has been able to do what the Scottish Government is unable to do and pledge that all its subcontractors will be paid the living wage.

Why are the SNP and the Scottish Government so timid on this issue while people like Boris Johnson are able to be more committed on the living wage? If Angela Constance is serious about it, she should do something about it using the powers in her remit. Angela Constance is one of the contestants in the SNP deputy leadership contest and there seems to be very little to differentiate between the candidates. In recent television appearances Angela Constance has been keen to support the idea of cutting corporation tax, but on the issue of the living wage the silence has been deafening.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-11398, in the name of James Kelly, on the living wage. I invite members who wish to speak in the debate t...
James Kelly (Rutherglen) (Lab) Lab
It gives me great delight to open this debate on the living wage on behalf of the Labour Party. Labour wants to use this debate to promote living wage week, ...
Mark McDonald (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
James Kelly Lab
Let me develop this point, and I will let Mr McDonald in. I will give Angela Constance a bit of free advice in the context of the deputy leadership contest....
Mark McDonald SNP
I note that the member is one of the brains trust behind Jim Murphy’s Labour leadership campaign, which already calls into question Mr Murphy’s judgment. Non...
James Kelly Lab
I think that Mark McDonald should be a bit more cautious in calling for minimum wage powers when the Government cannot even use the powers that it has to giv...
The Cabinet Secretary for Training, Youth and Women’s Employment (Angela Constance) SNP
I was looking forward to a nice consensual debate this afternoon. I was very interested that Mr Kelly wants a living wage strategy and a living wage unit, bu...
Hugh Henry (Renfrewshire South) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Angela Constance SNP
Not just now, thanks. I will make progress. I suggest that it is Mr Kelly and his colleagues who are rather timid. In the Scottish Government’s draft budge...
James Kelly Lab
The cabinet secretary mentioned the Government’s commitment to the living wage in the Scottish budget. Does she accept that there are workers at Scottish Gov...
Angela Constance SNP
That leads me neatly on to my next point. A plank of this Government’s success is our public sector pay policy, which has at its heart tackling inequality an...
James Kelly Lab
Does the cabinet secretary accept that the workers I was talking about are not covered by the public sector pay policy, nor are the subcontractors? What acti...
Angela Constance SNP
Where we have the power to act, we act. Unlike Mr Kelly, this Government will not participate in gesture politics. I am pig sick of the Labour Party always a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Order.
Angela Constance SNP
Labour members need to stop being mischievous and misleading. Where we have the power to act, we act. Our record compares very well with that of the previous...
Hugh Henry Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Angela Constance SNP
No, thanks—I am running out of time. We want to go further, because we believe that employers should reward their staff fairly. That is why we are calling o...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
Many in the media have been saying that politics in Scotland is changing; after listening to the opening speeches, I think that that much is clear. We have h...
Dave Thompson (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Mary Scanlon Con
I have less than 20 seconds left. However, when that wage depends on public funding, the funding should be at a level to allow the operators to pay the livi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
You should draw to a close, please.
Mary Scanlon Con
I am pleased that I have had the chance to speak in the debate. I am four seconds over my time, so I will leave it there. I move amendment S4M-11398.1 to le...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We now move to the open debate. We are very tight for time. Members have up to four minutes, please. 16:15
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I listened to James Kelly with a growing sense of bemusement, because Labour has no credibility whatsoever on the issue of the living wage. The simple way to...
James Kelly Lab
Can Joan McAlpine explain why the Department of Energy and Climate Change at Westminster is able to ensure that all its workers and subcontractors will be pa...
Joan McAlpine SNP
That is not done through procurement—but I will address those issues. It is not just the Scottish Government, the EU commissioner and the Court of Justice o...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the member give way?
Joan McAlpine SNP
I am in my final minute, and I have already taken an intervention. Please sit down.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
The member is in her final minute.
Joan McAlpine SNP
That advice gives me no pleasure. For that reason, I echo the minister and very much hope that the Smith commission will heed calls from enlightened voices i...