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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 05 November 2014

05 Nov 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Tackling Sectarianism

Sorry, but I had better press on.

The frustration of the anti-sectarianism campaigners Nil by Mouth has built up to such a stage that, before the October recess, they requested that members of the Scottish Parliament find time to debate the report—not the act. Dr Morrow has stated that

“it is vital that the report and its implications are considered.”

The Herald, a publication that is normally fairly sympathetic to the Scottish Government, ran an editorial on 6 October that reminded the Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs that she had welcomed the findings of the Morrow report and, in response, had stated that the Government

“will change Scotland for the better and build sectarian-free communities to benefit all of our people”.

The editorial stated:

“It is bizarre that this report ... has not been debated in the Scottish Parliament.”

It asked:

“How is the work progressing? Are the outcomes being monitored? Is the spending appropriate? What will happen when funding runs out next year?”

Those are good questions. Many of us would be interested to learn the answers, and I hope that the minister may be able to provide them today.

The advisory group recognised that Scotland was at the start of a journey and called for political leadership. Indeed, that was its first recommendation, so it is disappointing that, to date, the Scottish Government seems to have been reluctant to show that leadership—certainly, in Parliament.

The Government’s response to the advisory group’s report appeared, in some ways, to be an abdication of responsibility, as it pointed out that some of the recommendations did not relate directly to the Government. That is not the point. We need to know whether the Government is taking matters forward, how it is doing so and which recommendations apply to it.

The Scottish Government’s response to the report states:

“The Scottish Government recognises the need for a broad and holistic approach”.

We agree with that. It also states that the Government has

“written to key organisations inviting them to respond to the recommendations”

that apply to them by the end of June 2014.

In a way, that makes it even more surprising that four months on from that deadline the Scottish Parliament itself still has to discuss the recommendations. In the absence of the Government being prepared to use its time to initiate debate on this important report, Scottish Labour has offered some of its time to start the process.

The report highlighted some key aspects of sectarianism in today’s Scotland: that it varies significantly by geography, class, age, gender, occupation and community; that the impact varies from community to community and is affected by historical religious antagonisms, class, political association and commercial interests; that the people involved are not necessarily still actively participating in a faith community but have cultural affiliations that can lead to an us-versus-them mentality; and that sectarianism is not just overtly aggressive bigotry or anti-Catholic or anti-Irish prejudice.

In terms of addressing sectarianism, the report recommended, as I have already indicated, the importance of leadership at all levels. The advisory group did not consider that new legislation was required and felt that existing legislation on human rights, equalities and hate crime should be applied. Members might recall that Opposition members in Parliament made that very point when the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Bill was being discussed.

The advisory group also recognised that to learn more about sectarian attitudes further research was needed on, for example, the role of gender victimisation and social media; the impact of potentially divisive events such as parades or, indeed, football matches; employment discrimination; and other forms of tension within sections of the Christian faith. Crucially, the report found that organisations and institutions at all levels must take responsibility for sectarianism, which of course includes the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government, taking a cross-party approach.

The Government amendment refers to scrutiny by the Equal Opportunities Committee, but that was one session with Dr Morrow and Dr Rosie, and there was no questioning of the minister or of stakeholders. That is not scrutiny, nor indeed was the session in the Justice Committee, which was about the 2012 act. The issue is the report and the responses to it.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-11395, in the name of Elaine Murray, on tackling sectarianism. I will allow a few moments for members, pa...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
When, on 14 December 2011, the Scottish Government used its majority to railroad through the Parliament the controversial Offensive Behaviour at Football and...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
Does the member accept that—
The Presiding Officer NPA
Can we have Christine Grahame’s microphone on, please?
Christine Grahame SNP
My card is in, Presiding Officer.
The Presiding Officer NPA
It is working now.
Christine Grahame SNP
I know that I have a big voice, but I will obey the rules. Does the member accept that, on 4 March this year, the Justice Committee took substantial evidenc...
Elaine Murray Lab
Indeed, but I am talking about an in-depth investigation by committees and, in particular, discussion by the Parliament given its interest in the legislation...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Elaine Murray Lab
Sorry, but I had better press on. The frustration of the anti-sectarianism campaigners Nil by Mouth has built up to such a stage that, before the October r...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
The Equal Opportunities Committee did look at the report and agreed that, because the advisory group was carrying on, it would look at it again in future—whi...
Elaine Murray Lab
I have seen the letter from the convener of the committee. As a member of the Justice Committee, which could also look at the report, I accept that parliamen...
Fiona McLeod (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Elaine Murray Lab
No. I am afraid that I must get on. I know that we will hear from the Government that it committed £9 million over three years to research, education and co...
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Roseanna Cunningham) SNP
I assure everyone in the chamber that this Government remains completely committed to tackling sectarianism. The level of that commitment can be seen in the ...
Elaine Murray Lab
How many of those 44 funded projects will continue after March next year? Has any evaluation of their success been undertaken?
Roseanna Cunningham SNP
Of course that is happening. No project has any right to assume that funding will continue without its outcomes being assessed, and that is one of the key jo...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I congratulate Labour on allocating its parliamentary time to a debate on this important issue. Expressions of religious hatred, regardless of how they are ...
John Mason SNP
Does the member think that legislation was or can be part of the answer or that it must be purely about education?
Margaret Mitchell Con
I will come to that precise point. In 2011, that act was railroaded through by the SNP majority Government in the face of opposition from Scottish Conservat...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We now move to the open debate. Speeches should be four minutes, please. Time is fairly tight. 15:03
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
We can all agree that we have a problem and that we need to talk about it. The key in this debate, inside or outside the chamber, is that sectarianism needs ...
Elaine Murray Lab
Can I just make a point of information about that?
Christian Allard SNP
First, let me read out to Elaine Murray a letter dated 1 April from our convener Margaret McCulloch, to Dr Morrow. The letter is important because it says wh...
Elaine Murray Lab
My motion does not comment on the failure of any committee; rather, it comments on the fact that Parliament has not discussed the report. That is the importa...
Christian Allard SNP
The motion refers to scrutiny by a committee. It may be that the motion is not drafted properly, so perhaps Elaine Murray will welcome the Scottish Governmen...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Have you finished your speech?
Christian Allard SNP
Did I have four minutes?
The Presiding Officer NPA
Yes. You have finished your speech. 15:07
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab) Lab
The forthcoming old firm match has attracted the media’s attention even though it is three months away. Although it has been nearly three years since they la...