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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 08 October 2014

08 Oct 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Future

I offer the sympathies of the Conservative Party to the family and friends of Angus Macleod, who died yesterday. He was, for 35 years, an unchanging presence in Scottish politics at The Times in Scotland. I mention him now because on the issue of the constitution, he was an inquisitive, passionate, informed and rigorous journalist and I think that he will be missed by all members on all sides of the chamber. [Applause.]

We will support the Labour motion and we will not support either of the amendments. I congratulate the cabinet secretary on reading out the speech that appeared to have been prepared for him so adroitly, if without his usual passion. However, I wish to talk directly to the Government amendment. First, it says that we recognise

“the result of the independence referendum”.

Does the Scottish Government recognise that result? The Cabinet Secretary for Justice was out in Portobello on Saturday at a yes Scotland campaigning stall, campaigning for independence. I am not quite sure how one recognises the result and then campaigns away for independence as if the referendum were still to take place. Recognising the result means respecting it and moving on to the subsequent agenda.

The amendment then asks us to note

“the response to a recent Panelbase poll”

in the same sentence as the previous phrase. For goodness’ sake! We have just had a vote of 2.6 million people—85 per cent of a 97 per cent registered electorate—and we are asked to give almost equal weight to a Panelbase poll. There is no need to do that when we have had the most decisive political result in living memory, and certainly in my lifetime. There was an 11 per cent difference between yes and no in that poll, which is greater than anything I can recall, and on a huge turnout.

Thirdly, the SNP’s amendment says that we are

“to deliver on the clear promises made to the people of Scotland”.

Well, really. I have here a yes Scotland campaign leaflet, which says:

“Win an iPad”

and

“your chance to win one of 10 iPads.”

I looked up the rules, which said:

“The winners will be selected at random at 10:00 on Thursday 18 September 2014.

The winners will be informed via email within two weeks ... and the names of winners will be available on the Yes Scotland website.”

Three weeks later, the names are not there. The campaign cannot make small promises and not keep them and expect us to look to the Scottish Government and have it honour bigger promises.

We will debate the findings of the Smith commission when we return from recess. I have lodged a written question asking what assurances the Scottish Government will give that civil servants will not be used to support Scottish National Party political representatives in the work of the commission. The SNP is there not as primus inter pares, but on an equal footing with other political parties to contribute to the work of Lord Smith’s commission in the period ahead.

I will deal with two things in my final couple of minutes. First, I will develop something that I said in an earlier debate, which is that we must focus not just on the transfer of powers to this Parliament but on how we discharge those responsibilities and powers when we get them. Although representatives from the various political parties are working with Lord Smith, it is incumbent on this Parliament as a whole, across all parties and members, to prepare for the work of looking at exactly how we will ensure that the Parliament will undertake effective scrutiny and discharge those additional responsibilities effectively.

The worst thing of all would be for those powers to arrive here without us having properly and objectively, and without a party-political focus, considered how we will exercise that responsibility. We need to ensure that the people of Scotland not only see us with those responsibilities, but see us using the powers effectively and well for their benefit.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-11116, in the name of Johann Lamont, on Scotland’s future. I invite members who wish to speak in the deba...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
I hope that we can have a productive debate. The previous debate became very aggressive and unpleasant. We need to find a way of moving on to ensure that we ...
Annabelle Ewing (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP) SNP
Will Johann Lamont clarify what she thinks that Gordon Brown meant when he talked about powers as near to federalism as possible in the context of the United...
Johann Lamont Lab
First, clearly he did not support independence and secondly, he believed in a strong Scotland inside the United Kingdom, sustaining the pooling and sharing o...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I agree with the sentiment that Johann Lamont expresses about people’s engagement and our need to respect that and take it seriously. Does she agree with the...
Johann Lamont Lab
Certainly, the work that we did on the devolution commission meant that, for more than two years, we were engaged with civic Scotland, the trade unions and t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
You must close now, please.
Johann Lamont Lab
Let us let go of our own political projects, so that we can have real debate where we differ and real creativity where we instinctively agree. Let us resist ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I call Alex Neil to speak to amendment S4M-11116.1, in the name of Nicola Sturgeon. You have up to seven minutes. 16:30
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing (Alex Neil) SNP
Much has rightly been made of the remarkable shift that took place during the referendum campaign. The people of Scotland led an energised and engaging debat...
Johann Lamont Lab
The cabinet secretary is four minutes into his speech. At what point is he going to talk about using the powers that he has to create a fairer, more equal Sc...
Alex Neil SNP
Johann Lamont clearly has not been listening to my speech. I certainly hope that we get the powers that mean that we do not need to implement the welfare pol...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Order.
Alex Neil SNP
That challenge, set by the Scottish people, is to deliver real change that will improve their lives, to bring decisions closer to the people that they affect...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I call Patrick Harvie to speak to and move amendment S4M-11116.1.1. Mr Harvie, you have up to five minutes. Less would be more, please. 16:37
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I guess that, if we want to find the atmosphere that will allow us to explore the common ground, we all have a little way to go. In a couple of days’ time, ...
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I offer the sympathies of the Conservative Party to the family and friends of Angus Macleod, who died yesterday. He was, for 35 years, an unchanging presence...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
The member is in his final minute.
Jackson Carlaw Con
Finally, I will pick up on the sentiment that underpins Johann Lamont’s contribution to the debate. What her amendment says about acknowledging “that people...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
The member must close, please.
Jackson Carlaw Con
However, we as a Parliament should equally be prepared to develop that sentiment in the time that lies ahead. We must now all work to ensure that Lord Smith’...
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) SNP
In case there is any doubt, I say at the outset that I accept the result of the referendum. It was of course hugely disappointing for those of us who campaig...
Johann Lamont Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I am afraid not—I do not have much time. One hundred thousand disabled Scots will lose an average of £1,000 as a result of the switch from disability living...
Hugh Henry (Renfrewshire South) (Lab) Lab
The motion and the Government amendment refer to a “more equal” society. I will concentrate on that. There is no doubt that it is frequently mentioned in the...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD) LD
The referendum was the biggest democratic experience of my life. It gave the biggest democratic endorsement of any decision ever taken in this country, and w...
Maureen Watt (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
It is interesting to have this Labour-led debate and to hear Labour members’ perspective on the outcome of the referendum and where Scotland goes from here. ...
Johann Lamont Lab
Will the member give way?
Maureen Watt SNP
I have only three minutes, so I will not. A comfortable win for better together is what was suggested by the early polls that put support for independence a...
Jackson Carlaw Con
Oh, come on.