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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 08 October 2014

08 Oct 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Future

I guess that, if we want to find the atmosphere that will allow us to explore the common ground, we all have a little way to go.

In a couple of days’ time, I will address my party’s annual conference. I am looking forward to having the opportunity to thank my party colleagues new and old, whether they have been involved in politics and activism for a long time or have just recently become engaged, for the spirit in which they conducted themselves during the debate.

Just as, over the years, I have found common ground on a range of different issues with the Labour Party, the Liberals, the SNP and even—once in a while—the Conservatives, my party had to find it in itself to campaign for the clear majority view in the party supporting a yes vote without ever disrespecting, or undermining the friendship that we have with, those in the party who voted no. There are people who voted no and have just joined the party as well, and I am really glad that our presence on the political landscape is still able to bridge that divide.

It was possible to take a clear, passionate and articulate point of view in the debate without disrespecting people who voted a different way. In my experience, the bulk of the debate was conducted in that way.

That wider public engagement—that re-engagement, that connection with politics—came about because there was a great big idea that transcended traditional party lines. It transcended the identity of any political party or political figure, large or small. The danger that we are in at the moment is that we could pull up the drawbridge again and say, “That’s that over and done with, the decision’s been made and politics is for politicians and the political parties again.” That is a profound danger and, whether someone voted yes or no, whether they are a campaigner, an activist, a journalist, a voter, or a writer about Scotland’s history or its future, it is a danger that we absolutely must avoid.

I am very happy that my party was invited to send a representative to the Smith commission, and that it has agreed that I am to be that representative. I am happy to have the chance to take part in that discussion, but let us be realistic. The breakneck timetable that has been decided on and which now has to be lived up to—it cannot be broken without betraying the trust of the people who listened to that promise—will allow next to no opportunity for people outside the political bubble to shape the process and the outcome, to have their say, be heard and make a difference. People turned out to vote in record numbers because they knew that the decision would make a difference in a way that all too often, many people feel, elections no longer do. If we want people still to feel that there is a reason to get involved—that their action and their voice can make a difference—we must avoid the view that the process is about political parties reaching a deal, being satisfied with the deal that they have made and simply implementing it.

There is still time. The time that is available to us for meaningful public participation is not the time in the run-up to 30 November, when Lord Smith will publish his report. The time that is available will come afterwards. A few weeks for people to fire in their views by the end of October, with a report being written by the end of November, is not enough time. However, it will be months before legislation passes through, presumably, both Parliaments to implement whatever comes out of the process. We should use those months creatively in ensuring that this is not just about meeting the needs of the people inside the political bubble; it is about taking away a little bit of power from ourselves—away from the political parties, big or little—and giving that power back to the public.

Is there room for common ground? Of course there is, but only if people on both sides of that yes-no divide are willing to move towards the common ground. We will not find the common ground if people dig in their heels and say, “This is what we’ve published already,” or, “This is what we need to live up to the vow.” If either side digs in their heels and says, “This is what has to happen,” we will not reach the common ground and we will have missed that opportunity.

If we begin with a discussion—not just between the five political parties and Lord Smith, or between the two Governments—on the purpose, as Johann Lamont rightly said, of sharing the wealth of the country more fairly, strengthening local communities and local economies to make decisions for themselves and speeding the transition to a sustainable Scotland, I believe that we will end up with a compelling set of powers that may not be independence and may well be beyond what some other people have already published but which will meet the needs of the people of Scotland.

I move amendment S4M-11116.1.1, to leave out from “a real opportunity” to “Parliament” and insert:

“an opportunity to deliver substantial further powers and responsibilities to the Parliament but that the commission must be followed by a period of meaningful public participation, given the severely limited time available for the public to engage with the commission itself”. 

16:43  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-11116, in the name of Johann Lamont, on Scotland’s future. I invite members who wish to speak in the deba...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
I hope that we can have a productive debate. The previous debate became very aggressive and unpleasant. We need to find a way of moving on to ensure that we ...
Annabelle Ewing (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP) SNP
Will Johann Lamont clarify what she thinks that Gordon Brown meant when he talked about powers as near to federalism as possible in the context of the United...
Johann Lamont Lab
First, clearly he did not support independence and secondly, he believed in a strong Scotland inside the United Kingdom, sustaining the pooling and sharing o...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I agree with the sentiment that Johann Lamont expresses about people’s engagement and our need to respect that and take it seriously. Does she agree with the...
Johann Lamont Lab
Certainly, the work that we did on the devolution commission meant that, for more than two years, we were engaged with civic Scotland, the trade unions and t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
You must close now, please.
Johann Lamont Lab
Let us let go of our own political projects, so that we can have real debate where we differ and real creativity where we instinctively agree. Let us resist ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I call Alex Neil to speak to amendment S4M-11116.1, in the name of Nicola Sturgeon. You have up to seven minutes. 16:30
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing (Alex Neil) SNP
Much has rightly been made of the remarkable shift that took place during the referendum campaign. The people of Scotland led an energised and engaging debat...
Johann Lamont Lab
The cabinet secretary is four minutes into his speech. At what point is he going to talk about using the powers that he has to create a fairer, more equal Sc...
Alex Neil SNP
Johann Lamont clearly has not been listening to my speech. I certainly hope that we get the powers that mean that we do not need to implement the welfare pol...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Order.
Alex Neil SNP
That challenge, set by the Scottish people, is to deliver real change that will improve their lives, to bring decisions closer to the people that they affect...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I call Patrick Harvie to speak to and move amendment S4M-11116.1.1. Mr Harvie, you have up to five minutes. Less would be more, please. 16:37
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I guess that, if we want to find the atmosphere that will allow us to explore the common ground, we all have a little way to go. In a couple of days’ time, ...
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I offer the sympathies of the Conservative Party to the family and friends of Angus Macleod, who died yesterday. He was, for 35 years, an unchanging presence...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
The member is in his final minute.
Jackson Carlaw Con
Finally, I will pick up on the sentiment that underpins Johann Lamont’s contribution to the debate. What her amendment says about acknowledging “that people...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
The member must close, please.
Jackson Carlaw Con
However, we as a Parliament should equally be prepared to develop that sentiment in the time that lies ahead. We must now all work to ensure that Lord Smith’...
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) SNP
In case there is any doubt, I say at the outset that I accept the result of the referendum. It was of course hugely disappointing for those of us who campaig...
Johann Lamont Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I am afraid not—I do not have much time. One hundred thousand disabled Scots will lose an average of £1,000 as a result of the switch from disability living...
Hugh Henry (Renfrewshire South) (Lab) Lab
The motion and the Government amendment refer to a “more equal” society. I will concentrate on that. There is no doubt that it is frequently mentioned in the...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD) LD
The referendum was the biggest democratic experience of my life. It gave the biggest democratic endorsement of any decision ever taken in this country, and w...
Maureen Watt (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
It is interesting to have this Labour-led debate and to hear Labour members’ perspective on the outcome of the referendum and where Scotland goes from here. ...
Johann Lamont Lab
Will the member give way?
Maureen Watt SNP
I have only three minutes, so I will not. A comfortable win for better together is what was suggested by the early polls that put support for independence a...
Jackson Carlaw Con
Oh, come on.