Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 27 November 2013
27 Nov 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Independence White Paper
On that most basic part of the plan, for all its 670 pages and 170,000 words, the white paper cannot say what currency a separate Scotland would have.
Let us remember what Professor Kay said about the fundamental argument that runs through the whole white paper:
“I think people who talk about what independence would be like in economic terms need to get beyond vague aspirational statements of a rather ludicrous kind: ‘In an independent Scotland we would have the powers to tackle poverty in Scotland’”.
He went on:
“Nor should we devote much time to arguments for independence which are of the kind that an independent Scotland would have lots more money from some unexplained source and would therefore be able to avoid making choices about taxation and spending and debt, which rather unfortunately have to be made in the framework of the United Kingdom or indeed in any framework other than that which characterises cloud cuckoo land.”
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-08407, in the name of Alex Salmond, on the independence white paper. I call the First Minister, Alex Sa...
The First Minister (Alex Salmond)
SNP
In next year’s referendum, the people of Scotland will be asked to choose between two futures. The choice will be to take the future into our own hands or to...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
LD
Will the First Minister give way?
The First Minister
SNP
On the subject of being sadly predictable, I give way to Mr Rennie.
Willie Rennie
LD
I thank the First Minister for that compliment. The First Minister talks about other countries in the world. Can he tell me whether his Government, his min...
The First Minister
SNP
The Cabinet Secretary for Culture and External Affairs is briefing the consular corps today. I will arrange for Fiona Hyslop to give Mr Rennie a full briefin...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Will the First Minister give way?
The First Minister
SNP
I will give way because I want to discuss why that transformational policy, which is outlined in the white paper, is about independence for Scotland.
Gavin Brown
Con
Given that the First Minister says that the price tag for phase 1 is £100 million, why has he not done that already?
The First Minister
SNP
Is the Conservative Party going to tell us where we are going to save £100 million and which budget that is going to come from? Of course, the budget for wha...
Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
The First Minister
SNP
Later on. The reality is that such an investment can come about from the economic growth and expansion in the economy brought about by a rise in female part...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
The First Minister
SNP
I give way to Johann Lamont.
Johann Lamont
Lab
Surely the point is that the Government needs to invest the money in order to let women work and then get the resources, which means that it has to put in th...
The First Minister
SNP
I thought that we were going to get an explanation of whether it is concessionary travel or free personal care that is the target of Johann Lamont. That is e...
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Will the member take an intervention?
The First Minister
SNP
In a second. On last night’s “Scotland Tonight”, Alistair Darling said as employment in Scotland rises “those taxes go to the Treasury, which in turn come ...
Ruth Davidson (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
I am interested that the First Minister mentioned the IPPR think tank. It also stated last night: “The Scottish Government’s long awaited white paper is a p...
The First Minister
SNP
That is exactly the point that I made about the IPPR not supporting independence. On the question of revenue, it says that the SNP is right. There has been a...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Order.
The First Minister
SNP
The matter is at the heart of the debate. We have demonstrated that, through an expansion in childcare, a transformation in the opportunities for children an...
The First Minister
SNP
Alternatively, we can go forward to a growing economy and a growing society. We can transform childcare for our children. We can benefit from the revenues an...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Lab
If that is the First Minister being positive, heaven help us when he decides to turn negative. His speech was entirely in tune with his world view, which is ...
Johann Lamont
Lab
I did not realise that SNP members would be quite so true to form at every opportunity. Let us imagine that that were true. We would then have an independen...
The Minister for Local Government and Planning (Derek Mackay)
SNP
We are almost six minutes through Johann Lamont’s speech, and I have not heard a single thing that she happens to believe. Does she believe that pernicious t...
Johann Lamont
Lab
That is just completely ludicrous. Interruption.
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
Order.
Johann Lamont
Lab
On that most basic part of the plan, for all its 670 pages and 170,000 words, the white paper cannot say what currency a separate Scotland would have. Let u...
The First Minister
SNP
We have set out a plan for a transformational change in childcare in Scotland. Interruption.