Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
14
Parties on record
2,095,827
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Clear
Showing 0 of 2,095,827 contributions in session S6, 11 May 2026 – 10 Jun 2026. Latest 30 days: 3,026. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 10 Jun 2026.

No contributions match those filters.

← Back to list
Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 27 November 2013

27 Nov 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Independence White Paper
Salmond, Alex SNP Aberdeenshire East Watch on SPTV

The matter is at the heart of the debate. We have demonstrated that, through an expansion in childcare, a transformation in the opportunities for children and an increase in the participation rates of women coming into the workforce, revenues would flow into the Scottish treasury under independence, which would enable that transformational plan to be funded.

What we want the unionist parties to tell us is how that will happen under devolution without the dramatic cuts in things such as free personal care—concessionary travel and student fees would undoubtedly also be in the target line—that Johann Lamont’s cuts commission is considering.

So far, the assumption has been that, if we do not have independence, everything will continue much as it is, but I point out that we can see that that will not be the case. In the most recent United Kingdom general election campaign, Alistair Carmichael—who is now the Secretary of State for Scotland—said on STV:

“We do want to see Barnett scrapped.”

Last weekend on “Sunday Politics”, he went even further when he said:

“There will be no action taken on the Barnett Formula until the economy has stabilised again.”

Given that George Osborne tells us that the economy is stabilising, we must think that that will happen sometime soon.

I will quote what Ruth Davidson told The Sun, not about the Daleks, Dr Who and the BBC but about Barnett. She said that it was

“only supposed to be temporary ... I do think that there will be a review of Barnett after 2014. The ground has shifted since devolution.”

We know that Labour will not fight for the current funding levels for Scotland. Just two days ago, a report was published by the Westminster all-party parliamentary group on taxation, which recommended:

“In the case of a ‘No’ vote, the Barnett Formula must be replaced as a priority, with a needs-based formula ... the best alternative, using the seven indicators of relative need identified by the Holtham Commission”.

We now know exactly what the all-party group that is supported by all the Westminster parties has in mind, because we know exactly what the Holtham commission recommendations would mean for Scottish spending, as it published that in an article in the Financial Times in July 2010. It would mean a cut in Scottish spending of up to £4,000 million a year.

Of course, we could say that that is just one proposal. The Scottish Trades Union Congress, for example, estimates that the cut might be £2,000 million a year. The UK Government will not give any commitments or indications about what will happen to the Barnett formula if we remain in the UK, but that stance of keeping it quiet until after the referendum is unsustainable. The Government has set out our case for an independent Scotland. What we want to hear from the unionist parties—the better together campaign—is how big the better together raid will be on the Scottish budget if Scotland votes no. That is reality.

There are certain things that we agree on. We agree and we know that, over the past 30 years, Scotland has contributed far more, in relative terms, to the UK budget than we have received back. We know that, in the past five years, that has amounted to £12,000 million, which is more than £2,000 a head for every man, woman and child in the country. We know that Scotland contributes 9.9 per cent of the UK’s taxation and gets back 9.3 per cent of the spending, but the reality is that that 9.3 per cent will be targeted by the better together campaign. It will cut Scotland’s budget without reflecting on or understanding the massive contribution that Scotland has made and will continue to make to UK finances.

When we have the debate about the vision of Scottish society that is laid out in the white paper, it will no longer be contrasted against a silence from the better together campaign. It will be contrasted against a future in which it sees low growth in the population and in the economy, and in which Scotland will be subjected to the severest cuts in political history, over and above the retrenchment of the past few years.

Willie Rennie rose—

Ruth Davidson rose—

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-08407, in the name of Alex Salmond, on the independence white paper. I call the First Minister, Alex Sa...
The First Minister (Alex Salmond) SNP
In next year’s referendum, the people of Scotland will be asked to choose between two futures. The choice will be to take the future into our own hands or to...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD) LD
Will the First Minister give way?
The First Minister SNP
On the subject of being sadly predictable, I give way to Mr Rennie.
Willie Rennie LD
I thank the First Minister for that compliment. The First Minister talks about other countries in the world. Can he tell me whether his Government, his min...
The First Minister SNP
The Cabinet Secretary for Culture and External Affairs is briefing the consular corps today. I will arrange for Fiona Hyslop to give Mr Rennie a full briefin...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
Will the First Minister give way?
The First Minister SNP
I will give way because I want to discuss why that transformational policy, which is outlined in the white paper, is about independence for Scotland.
Gavin Brown Con
Given that the First Minister says that the price tag for phase 1 is £100 million, why has he not done that already?
The First Minister SNP
Is the Conservative Party going to tell us where we are going to save £100 million and which budget that is going to come from? Of course, the budget for wha...
Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
The First Minister SNP
Later on. The reality is that such an investment can come about from the economic growth and expansion in the economy brought about by a rise in female part...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
The First Minister SNP
I give way to Johann Lamont.
Johann Lamont Lab
Surely the point is that the Government needs to invest the money in order to let women work and then get the resources, which means that it has to put in th...
The First Minister SNP
I thought that we were going to get an explanation of whether it is concessionary travel or free personal care that is the target of Johann Lamont. That is e...
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?
The First Minister SNP
In a second. On last night’s “Scotland Tonight”, Alistair Darling said as employment in Scotland rises “those taxes go to the Treasury, which in turn come ...
Ruth Davidson (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I am interested that the First Minister mentioned the IPPR think tank. It also stated last night: “The Scottish Government’s long awaited white paper is a p...
The First Minister SNP
That is exactly the point that I made about the IPPR not supporting independence. On the question of revenue, it says that the SNP is right. There has been a...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Order.
The First Minister SNP
The matter is at the heart of the debate. We have demonstrated that, through an expansion in childcare, a transformation in the opportunities for children an...
The First Minister SNP
Alternatively, we can go forward to a growing economy and a growing society. We can transform childcare for our children. We can benefit from the revenues an...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
If that is the First Minister being positive, heaven help us when he decides to turn negative. His speech was entirely in tune with his world view, which is ...
Johann Lamont Lab
I did not realise that SNP members would be quite so true to form at every opportunity. Let us imagine that that were true. We would then have an independen...
The Minister for Local Government and Planning (Derek Mackay) SNP
We are almost six minutes through Johann Lamont’s speech, and I have not heard a single thing that she happens to believe. Does she believe that pernicious t...
Johann Lamont Lab
That is just completely ludicrous. Interruption.
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
Order.
Johann Lamont Lab
On that most basic part of the plan, for all its 670 pages and 170,000 words, the white paper cannot say what currency a separate Scotland would have. Let u...
The First Minister SNP
We have set out a plan for a transformational change in childcare in Scotland. Interruption.