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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 02 April 2014

02 Apr 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Stop and Search

I am sorry, but I do not have time.

If those kids in Glasgow had been down by the Clyde drinking alcohol until midnight or 1 o’clock at night, something could have happened to them. In that respect, stop and search is a positive thing. It protected those kids from harm, rather than anything else.

The Lib Dems ask for scrutiny and the Labour Party ask for Audit Scotland to intervene. If they had listened to the Cabinet Secretary for Justice last week and worked with us rather than against us, they would have known that the Scottish Police Authority has already announced that it will carry out a review of stop and search. That body, which has oversight of the police, is the correct one to do that. Graeme Pearson did not recognise that in his amendment for the Labour Party or in his speech. His calls for the cabinet secretary to take control of the police are somewhat bizarre. We have had three parties, working in tandem once again, alleging that the Scottish Government is already interfering in police matters, but now they say that they want it to interfere and intervene. They need to say exactly what it is that they want.

We should support the police in the tough job that they do, and it is of concern that members who are here today question police officers’ professionalism. What would those members say to police officers, who risk their lives?

We should welcome the record drop in crime and recognise that the policy has helped to achieve safer streets and communities. The policy has prevented crimes. What would those members say to people in local communities who would be victims of crime if we did not use stop and search to deter it? I ask them to look at themselves.

Communities also have rights, and they have seen an incredible drop in crime and the carrying of offensive weapons—knives and other weapons. Stop and search is working in that respect, and we are looking at a review. Is that not the proper way to go, instead of supporting the motion, whose purpose is basically just to score political points and which does nothing whatsoever to help communities out there or the kids I mentioned? The Lib Dems seem not to realise that stopping and searching those kids protected them from any further harm.

15:11

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-09557, in the name of Alison McInnes, on stop and search. 14:40
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
It is a privilege to open the debate on behalf of the Scottish Liberal Democrats. Yesterday marked the first anniversary of Police Scotland and the aboliti...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Alison McInnes LD
Not at the moment. We will, therefore, introduce amendments to the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill and present Parliament with an opportunity to improve th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I call Kenny MacAskill, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice, to speak to and move amendment S4M-09557.2. You have seven minutes. I make it clear that we are ti...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill) SNP
I welcome the chance to respond to the motion lodged by Alison McInnes. Stop and search is an important issue, so it is disappointing that the Liberal Democ...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I have listened with interest to what the cabinet secretary says, and I have looked at the text of his amendment. When it comes to policing in Scotland from ...
Kenny MacAskill SNP
Not at all. I have just come from a meeting with the police and the Police Investigations and Review Commissioner. We established through Parliament—by a maj...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD) LD
The cabinet secretary is fond of quoting statistics, but what was the success rate of the so-called voluntary stop and searches?
Kenny MacAskill SNP
I cannot give the member that precisely, but what he will see is that the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Alcohol and knives are taken from many of th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I call Graeme Pearson to speak to and move amendment S4M-09557.1. Mr Pearson, you have up to five minutes. 14:57
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I rise to move the amendment in my name, which, because of the Government’s pre-emptive amendment, is unlikely to be voted on. To that extent I am disappoint...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
Please draw to a close.
Graeme Pearson Lab
I will indeed, Presiding Officer. In the same magazine, the chief constable asks whether people “seriously think” that the police should go to the public to...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
At the outset, I confirm that I very much support the ability of police officers to stop and search suspects. It is an important power in the fight against c...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We now come to the open debate. We are very tight for time, so speeches should be a maximum of four minutes, please. 15:07
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
I think that we agree that we all want crime to be tackled and our communities to be made safer. It is to be welcomed that recorded crime is at a 39-year low...
Margaret Mitchell Con
Will the member give way?
Sandra White SNP
I am sorry, but I do not have time. If those kids in Glasgow had been down by the Clyde drinking alcohol until midnight or 1 o’clock at night, something cou...
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab) Lab
I thank the Liberal Democrats for lodging their motion. Disappointingly, the amendment from the Cabinet Secretary for Justice merely reinforces the impressio...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Mr Pentland, will you pull your microphone round towards you, please?
John Pentland Lab
We do not know whether that is a tenth of our population or fewer people suffering more searches, but we know that the figure is four times that for England ...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) SNP
I will begin by stating what is perhaps the obvious, which is that I am completely against the idea of fiddled or made-up figures from any public body. I am ...
Alison McInnes LD
Will the member take an intervention?
Roderick Campbell SNP
I am sorry, but I do not have time. I am sure that we all accept that we live in a very different world from that of 50 years ago or even 20 years ago. Over...
Alison McInnes LD
Will the member take an intervention?
Roderick Campbell SNP
I am sorry, but time prevents me from doing so. In evidence to the Justice Sub-Committee on Policing on 20 March, Police Scotland revealed that the rate of ...
Hugh Henry (Renfrewshire South) (Lab) Lab
I want to put on record my support for stop and search. Indeed, as a minister, I played some part in ensuring that additional powers were made available to t...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I am delighted to participate in the debate, as it is always a pleasure to respond to Liberal Democrat members who want to compare Scotland’s achievements in...
Alison McInnes LD
That demonstrates what I do support, which is statutory stop and search, on reasonable suspicion and intelligence led. What I am debating this afternoon and ...