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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 02 April 2014

02 Apr 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Stop and Search

I cannot give the member that precisely, but what he will see is that the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Alcohol and knives are taken from many of these youngsters and Scotland is a safer place. As the First Minister said in his answer to Mr Rennie last week, stop and search is not just about detecting those who would perpetrate crime and harm other individuals; it is also about protecting those who want to go about their communities safely and do not want to be prisoners in their own home.

We know that those most likely to perpetrate an offence—certainly one with a knife—are young men. We also know that those who are most likely to be victims are young men. I speak to many of them, and they welcome the fact that Scotland is a safer place, and that stop and search plays a role in that. That is why crime is at a 39-year low. That is why the fear of crime is down. That is why people feel safer on our streets and in our communities. The recent Scottish crime and justice survey shows that 72 per cent of people feel safe walking alone after dark. Mr Rennie should compare that with the 66 per cent figure in 2008-09.

The real point is that people welcome this approach. Just last week I was at an event in Greenock, where I spoke to young people about the no knives, better lives campaign. Many of those I spoke to understand that education and prevention tactics combine to make our cities safer. They welcome stop and search.

It is not just me. In January, Jackie Brock, the chief executive of Children in Scotland, said:

“Police Scotland’s track record”

in supporting young people

“means they are well placed to understand how to get young people on board with sensible and fair measures to prevent crime.”

Ross Deuchar, professor of criminology, echoed that. Even the Liberal Democrat justice spokesman in the previous parliamentary session, Robert Brown, acknowledged the important impact of stop and search when he said in 2010:

“The single thing that deters people from criminal behaviour is the likelihood of being caught. The stop and searches that Strathclyde Police has carried out have been effective”—[Official Report, 30 June 2010; c 27865.]

In 2008, the former Tory MSP and Justice Committee convener, Bill Aitken, said:

“If one in 12 searches is positive then that is a crime that has been detected or a knife that has been taken off someone. These searches save lives.”

In response to a knife attack, Bill Aitken said:

“Police must use their stop and search powers.”

I do not know what has changed for the Tories since we have moved from a success rate of one in 12 to a success rate of 20 per cent.

Let me make it clear that the chief constable has a responsibility to ensure that stop and search procedures on our streets, whether founded in a particular piece of legislation or undertaken on a voluntary basis, are used carefully and appropriately. I believe that he does. Police Scotland is making our communities safer, and stop and search is a part of that.

I move amendment S4M-09557.2, to leave out from “Police Scotland” to end and insert:

“stop and search is an operational matter for Police Scotland and is making an important contribution to local policing and the reduction of violent crimes, including a 60% fall in crimes of handling an offensive weapon since 2006-07; welcomes the fact that crime in Scotland is at a 39-year low and officer numbers are more than 1,000 higher than in 2007; recognises that Police Scotland is accountable to the Scottish Police Authority, which is currently undertaking a detailed review of stop and search; further notes that less than 0.01% of all stop and searches have resulted in a complaint since April 2013, and believes that the proportionate use of stop and search makes Scotland’s streets safer and thereby reduces fear of crime.”

References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-09557, in the name of Alison McInnes, on stop and search. 14:40
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
It is a privilege to open the debate on behalf of the Scottish Liberal Democrats. Yesterday marked the first anniversary of Police Scotland and the aboliti...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Alison McInnes LD
Not at the moment. We will, therefore, introduce amendments to the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill and present Parliament with an opportunity to improve th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I call Kenny MacAskill, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice, to speak to and move amendment S4M-09557.2. You have seven minutes. I make it clear that we are ti...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill) SNP
I welcome the chance to respond to the motion lodged by Alison McInnes. Stop and search is an important issue, so it is disappointing that the Liberal Democ...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I have listened with interest to what the cabinet secretary says, and I have looked at the text of his amendment. When it comes to policing in Scotland from ...
Kenny MacAskill SNP
Not at all. I have just come from a meeting with the police and the Police Investigations and Review Commissioner. We established through Parliament—by a maj...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD) LD
The cabinet secretary is fond of quoting statistics, but what was the success rate of the so-called voluntary stop and searches?
Kenny MacAskill SNP
I cannot give the member that precisely, but what he will see is that the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Alcohol and knives are taken from many of th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I call Graeme Pearson to speak to and move amendment S4M-09557.1. Mr Pearson, you have up to five minutes. 14:57
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I rise to move the amendment in my name, which, because of the Government’s pre-emptive amendment, is unlikely to be voted on. To that extent I am disappoint...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
Please draw to a close.
Graeme Pearson Lab
I will indeed, Presiding Officer. In the same magazine, the chief constable asks whether people “seriously think” that the police should go to the public to...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
At the outset, I confirm that I very much support the ability of police officers to stop and search suspects. It is an important power in the fight against c...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We now come to the open debate. We are very tight for time, so speeches should be a maximum of four minutes, please. 15:07
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
I think that we agree that we all want crime to be tackled and our communities to be made safer. It is to be welcomed that recorded crime is at a 39-year low...
Margaret Mitchell Con
Will the member give way?
Sandra White SNP
I am sorry, but I do not have time. If those kids in Glasgow had been down by the Clyde drinking alcohol until midnight or 1 o’clock at night, something cou...
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab) Lab
I thank the Liberal Democrats for lodging their motion. Disappointingly, the amendment from the Cabinet Secretary for Justice merely reinforces the impressio...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Mr Pentland, will you pull your microphone round towards you, please?
John Pentland Lab
We do not know whether that is a tenth of our population or fewer people suffering more searches, but we know that the figure is four times that for England ...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) SNP
I will begin by stating what is perhaps the obvious, which is that I am completely against the idea of fiddled or made-up figures from any public body. I am ...
Alison McInnes LD
Will the member take an intervention?
Roderick Campbell SNP
I am sorry, but I do not have time. I am sure that we all accept that we live in a very different world from that of 50 years ago or even 20 years ago. Over...
Alison McInnes LD
Will the member take an intervention?
Roderick Campbell SNP
I am sorry, but time prevents me from doing so. In evidence to the Justice Sub-Committee on Policing on 20 March, Police Scotland revealed that the rate of ...
Hugh Henry (Renfrewshire South) (Lab) Lab
I want to put on record my support for stop and search. Indeed, as a minister, I played some part in ensuring that additional powers were made available to t...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I am delighted to participate in the debate, as it is always a pleasure to respond to Liberal Democrat members who want to compare Scotland’s achievements in...
Alison McInnes LD
That demonstrates what I do support, which is statutory stop and search, on reasonable suspicion and intelligence led. What I am debating this afternoon and ...