Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 20 November 2013
20 Nov 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Marriage and Civil Partnership (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I would hope that their father would have helped to vote them that opportunity. Talking about the next generation is important because it is those people we must think about.
Last year, the University of Cambridge conducted a huge body of research called “The School Report”. The researchers spoke to hundreds of LGBT pupils from across the UK who were open about their sexuality. The majority said that they were the victims of homophobic bullying and that it happened to them in their schools. More than half of the respondents deliberately self-harmed. Nearly a quarter had attempted to take their own life on at least one occasion.
These are our children and they are made to feel so much guilt, shame and despair. We have an opportunity today to make it better for them. At the moment, we tell these young people, “You are good enough to serve in our armed forces. You are good enough to care in our hospitals. You are good enough to teach in our schools. But you are not good enough to marry the person you love and who loves you in return.” We tell them that they are something different, something less, something other, and that the dream and gold standard of marriage does not apply to them. They do not get to have it. That apartheid message, that “same but different” or alien quality, and that otherness is reflected in every hurtful comment, slander, exclusion and abuse, whether it takes place in the school playground, on the factory floor, or in the local pub.
That is why the bill matters to those people who will directly benefit from it, such as those couples who are eager to commit their relationship in marriage and who should be allowed to do so. More than that, it matters to the future nature of our country. We have an opportunity today to tell our nation’s children that, no matter where they live and no matter who they love, there is nothing that they cannot do. We will wipe away the last legal barrier that says that they are something less than their peers. We can help them to walk taller into the playground tomorrow and to face their accuser down knowing that the Parliament of their country has stood up for them and said that they are every bit as good as every one of their classmates. They will know that their Parliament has said that they deserve the same rights as everyone else.
I believe in marriage. I believe that it is a good thing and something to be celebrated, and I want everyone in Scotland to know that marriage is important to them. I support the principles of this bill.
Last year, the University of Cambridge conducted a huge body of research called “The School Report”. The researchers spoke to hundreds of LGBT pupils from across the UK who were open about their sexuality. The majority said that they were the victims of homophobic bullying and that it happened to them in their schools. More than half of the respondents deliberately self-harmed. Nearly a quarter had attempted to take their own life on at least one occasion.
These are our children and they are made to feel so much guilt, shame and despair. We have an opportunity today to make it better for them. At the moment, we tell these young people, “You are good enough to serve in our armed forces. You are good enough to care in our hospitals. You are good enough to teach in our schools. But you are not good enough to marry the person you love and who loves you in return.” We tell them that they are something different, something less, something other, and that the dream and gold standard of marriage does not apply to them. They do not get to have it. That apartheid message, that “same but different” or alien quality, and that otherness is reflected in every hurtful comment, slander, exclusion and abuse, whether it takes place in the school playground, on the factory floor, or in the local pub.
That is why the bill matters to those people who will directly benefit from it, such as those couples who are eager to commit their relationship in marriage and who should be allowed to do so. More than that, it matters to the future nature of our country. We have an opportunity today to tell our nation’s children that, no matter where they live and no matter who they love, there is nothing that they cannot do. We will wipe away the last legal barrier that says that they are something less than their peers. We can help them to walk taller into the playground tomorrow and to face their accuser down knowing that the Parliament of their country has stood up for them and said that they are every bit as good as every one of their classmates. They will know that their Parliament has said that they deserve the same rights as everyone else.
I believe in marriage. I believe that it is a good thing and something to be celebrated, and I want everyone in Scotland to know that marriage is important to them. I support the principles of this bill.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-08327, in the name of Alex Neil, on the Marriage and Civil Partnership (Scotland) Bill.16:58
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing (Alex Neil)
SNP
The Marriage and Civil Partnership (Scotland) Bill will make a number of changes to the law on marriage and civil partnership, but the centrepiece is obvious...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
What provisions are there in the bill to avoid situations in extremis that may occur when one party challenges the other, which could possibly force action t...
Alex Neil
SNP
I will go into detail on such issues later when I discuss the recommendations from the Equal Opportunities Committee.I have already referred to same-sex marr...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
Can the minister clarify at this point exactly how he intends to deal with the issue of the 4,100 consultation submissions that were—through no fault of his—...
Alex Neil
SNP
We have found the submissions and we will put them on the website. As Alex Johnstone said, they were not lost through any fault of the Scottish Government. T...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
As the cabinet secretary knows, my wife and I adopted our daughter some 30 years ago. Would he agree with me that because my wife and I do not support same-s...
Alex Neil
SNP
Believing in or opposing same-sex marriage is in itself no barrier to adoption. I am happy to write to Richard Lyle to clarify the law on adoption in relatio...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
The cabinet secretary will know that a Roman Catholic adoption agency is currently having its charitable status threatened because it does not recognise same...
Alex Neil
SNP
That matter is currently under legal appeal. Therefore, it would be inappropriate for me to comment on that particular example. I am happy to clarify such ma...
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
SNP
At present, the state dictates what the position of each religious denomination should be on the matter: it explicitly does not allow them to marry people of...
Alex Neil
SNP
Absolutely; a number of religious organisations and churches are very much in favour of the proposed legislation—the Quakers being a good example. Until now,...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Does the cabinet secretary agree with the Queen’s counsel who told the Equal Opportunities Committee that legally the guidance will have no binding effect?
Alex Neil
SNP
I do not agree at all. The guidance is from the chief prosecutor to every prosecutor in Scotland. In my view, to say that it will have no impact is absolute ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I remind people in the gallery not to applaud.17:15
Margaret McCulloch (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak on behalf of the Equal Opportunities Committee, following our stage 1 report on the Marriage and Civil Partnership (Scotla...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Will Margaret McCulloch give way?
Margaret McCulloch
Lab
No—I do not have time. I have a lot to get through on the report.Some witnesses emphasised the concept of complementarity between men and women. The Catholic...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to participate in this stage 1 debate on the Marriage and Civil Partnership (Scotland) Bill. At the outset, I commend the Scottish Government un...
Mark McDonald (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
Jackie Baillie
Lab
I will in a second.Religions can and do refuse to marry people. That is a matter for them; it is not proposed that that will change.
Mark McDonald
SNP
The member has just made my point, which is that churches are already able to choose who they marry.
Jackie Baillie
Lab
I am never keen to give up time to the member, but I am glad that we are in agreement.I welcome that point because it is important. However, I acknowledge th...
Ruth Davidson (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
The debate is not easy and it was never going to be. When areas of love meet the law and when belief, commitment and faith collide with legislation, the wate...
Jamie Hepburn
SNP
I thank Ruth Davidson for giving way during her very eloquent contribution; I am enjoying it very much. She spoke about the next generation. I am the father ...
Ruth Davidson
Con
I would hope that their father would have helped to vote them that opportunity. Talking about the next generation is important because it is those people we ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We now move to the open debate. I have 20 members who wish to take part in the debate. I am absolutely determined that those who have already indicated their...
Marco Biagi (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I apologise for not noticing earlier that we were running slightly ahead of schedule.As is becoming clear to everyone, the bill...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
Is the member aware that last month marked the 50th anniversary of the publication of a book called “Towards a Quaker View of Sex”? That book said:“Surely it...
Marco Biagi
SNP
I very much agree with the sentiment that was expressed, although I speak up for Unitarians, who have also been performing same-sex blessings since the 1950s...