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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 20 November 2013

20 Nov 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Defence Industry
Ian Davidson stands second to none in championing the interests of shipyard workers. He has fought to secure jobs in the face of the threat that the commitment of Gil Paterson and his party to separate Scotland from the rest of the United Kingdom poses for those workers. Perhaps Gil Paterson and his party should be a little more honest about what their prospectus is.

Those black and white pictures of armies of working-class men flooding in and out of the shipyard gates, bending steel and metal against a backdrop of cranes and docks, and building floating marvels, are iconic images that are integral to the history of Glasgow and Scotland.

Jimmy Reid famously said:

“We don’t only build ships, we build men.”

We only have to listen to two of those great men—Sir Alex Ferguson and Billy Connolly—to get a sense of the pride that was felt about those workplaces and the special people who made up the workforce. The fact that we in Scotland possess those amazing skills and expertise, which were once the envy of the world, is a source of great pride to all of us.

Sadly, our competitors in other countries did not just sit back and admire what we did in Scotland and across the UK; they, too, learned how to build such amazing ships. They invested in their industries and found any competitive edge that they could to take us on at that game.

At one point in the early 1900s, the Clyde built one fifth of the world’s ships and, at its peak, shipbuilding in Scotland employed 100,000 people. Scotland still has a proud shipbuilding industry, but it is not what it once was—we know that. The days of thousands of young men leaving school and walking into an apprenticeship in the shipyards the very next day have gone, yet the industry is still a key one for Scotland. It provides not just thousands of jobs but, with them, good wages and high skills to boot.

The decision to go ahead with the aircraft carriers, ordered by a Labour Prime Minister from Fife, may have been viewed as controversial in some quarters, but it was not viewed as such by the thousands of men and women who set about that mammoth project in the knowledge that it would provide for their families in the coming years. It was a lifeline for those workers, but it was a project that had a clear end date and, sadly, that end date is close. There will no longer be enough work on the Clyde to sustain the workforce at its present capacity. The fact that the 800 workers affected knew that this day would come makes it no less of a blow to them and to our shipbuilding industry.

In responding to the news from the Secretary of State for Defence earlier this month, the Deputy First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, said much that I agree with. Yes, we are all saddened for the proud shipbuilders in Portsmouth, and we remember the solidarity that exists across the workforce, wherever it is based. It is beyond argument that there has been a steady decline in our shipbuilding industry over a long number of years, which should worry us all. I, too, am concerned about our reliance on naval contracts and the uncertainty that comes from the gaps in those order books.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-08348, in the name of Johann Lamont, on the future of the defence industry in Scotland. I advise members ...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
I am proud to speak in the debate.In 2011, as a consequence of the reorganisation of the boundaries for Scottish Parliament elections, I was elected to repre...
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
I much appreciate Johann Lamont giving me the opportunity to intervene.Does Johann Lamont think that democracy is an urgent issue for everyone in the world? ...
Johann Lamont Lab
Ian Davidson stands second to none in championing the interests of shipyard workers. He has fought to secure jobs in the face of the threat that the commitme...
The Minister for Transport and Veterans (Keith Brown) SNP
In the context of that last point about the decline in shipbuilding jobs, does Johann Lamont believe the promises to make the peace dividend pay for jobs in ...
Johann Lamont Lab
I am not clear what point the minister is making. We must recognise something about which the Government has done nothing. It spoke about diversification onl...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Is Johann Lamont saying that BAE has taken a commercial decision—which she has recognised—to invest more than £300 million on the basis of whatever constitut...
Johann Lamont Lab
The exemption applies precisely because we are inside the United Kingdom. Interruption. Members cannot wish that away. The Clyde is the best place inside the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Order.
Johann Lamont Lab
I have acknowledged Nicola Sturgeon’s work with, and commitment to, the shipyards for which she once acted and I accept that she has a good understanding of ...
Mark McDonald (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Johann Lamont Lab
For the avoidance of doubt, let us be clear that if Scotland votes yes next year, it will be the death knell of a proud industry. Interruption.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Order, please.
Johann Lamont Lab
That is not defeatism but the real world. If SNP members do not believe me, they should come and join the people in the real world who work in the industry. ...
Mark McDonald SNP
Will the member give way?
Johann Lamont Lab
Listen to the men who work in the industry. We know what you think. You should understand what the people in the shipyards think.Raymond Duguid of Rosyth sai...
Gil Paterson SNP
But he works for you.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Mr Paterson, order, please.
Johann Lamont Lab
Duncan McPhee of Scotstoun said:“we would be greatly reduced or completely finished as a shipbuilding industry”.John Wall of the Confederation of Shipbuildin...
Mark McDonald SNP
Will the member give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Mr McDonald, please sit down.
Johann Lamont Lab
As Donald Dewar foretold, we have heard the shout of the welder in the din of the great Clyde shipyards, and it is time that the Scottish Government listened...
Gil Paterson SNP
You are a disgrace to Scotland.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Order.Ms Lamont, you are in your final minute.
Johann Lamont Lab
The fact of the matter is that, in this debate, the people within the industry tell us the consequences and the people who support independence tell us that ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Before I call the minister to speak, I remind the chamber that although debates can be robust and members can have opinions on all sides of them, they must b...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I wonder whether it is in order for a member to shout, “You are a disgrace to Scotland”, to a member who is defendin...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I have just made the point to the chamber that members must be respectful of each other. That is what it says in the standing orders, so we should all reflec...
Neil Findlay Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I wonder whether you would allow the opportunity for the member to withdraw that disgraceful comment. Applause.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Order, please. I have made the point that members should be respectful of each other, which is what it says in the standing orders. I now expect the debate t...