Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 22 April 2014
22 Apr 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Voice in the European Union
I am in my final 30 seconds.
The issue that we are debating is an important one. It is right that we are debating it and I am glad that we have the opportunity to do so, but it is not an easy one to resolve. Constitutional change will not be a panacea. Improving Scotland’s best interests in the EU will take influence and clout.
I move amendment S4M-09748.2, to leave out from “Scotland’s strong commitment” to end and insert:
“that the most positive foundation for Scotland influencing the EU has been the role of the United Kingdom as a lead presence in the EU; notes that the UK Government has protected the UK’s exemption from joining the euro, secured the UK rebate and exclusion from the Schengen border obligations, achieved a historic cut to the EU budget, protected thousands of UK jobs by opting out of a revised Lisbon Treaty, passed the European Union Act 2011 to ensure that there can be no further ceding of powers from the UK to Brussels without a referendum, and believes that Scotland has benefited significantly from these successes and achievements; further notes the universal acceptance of the need for reform of the EU to enable it to work more effectively and enhance the opportunities available to the UK and other EU member states; believes that this is an important and exciting opportunity for the EU; notes that the UK is leading the reform agenda and that the Prime Minister has pledged a UK referendum in 2017 on membership of the reformed EU if his party is returned to government; notes the desire of the Scottish Government for independence and, in such an event, believes that the uncertainty surrounding Scotland’s admission as a new member state of the EU, including timescale and as yet unknown conditions that other member states may attach to admission together with the removal of Scotland from the proven influence of the UK as an EU member, can only weaken Scotland’s position within the EU, both in general terms and at a critical time for securing necessary reform, and considers it paradoxical and unacceptable that, while the Scottish Government argues that it is right to give Scottish voters a referendum on independence from the UK, it will, in the event of independence, then deny Scottish voters a referendum on whatever terms and conditions are negotiated.”
The issue that we are debating is an important one. It is right that we are debating it and I am glad that we have the opportunity to do so, but it is not an easy one to resolve. Constitutional change will not be a panacea. Improving Scotland’s best interests in the EU will take influence and clout.
I move amendment S4M-09748.2, to leave out from “Scotland’s strong commitment” to end and insert:
“that the most positive foundation for Scotland influencing the EU has been the role of the United Kingdom as a lead presence in the EU; notes that the UK Government has protected the UK’s exemption from joining the euro, secured the UK rebate and exclusion from the Schengen border obligations, achieved a historic cut to the EU budget, protected thousands of UK jobs by opting out of a revised Lisbon Treaty, passed the European Union Act 2011 to ensure that there can be no further ceding of powers from the UK to Brussels without a referendum, and believes that Scotland has benefited significantly from these successes and achievements; further notes the universal acceptance of the need for reform of the EU to enable it to work more effectively and enhance the opportunities available to the UK and other EU member states; believes that this is an important and exciting opportunity for the EU; notes that the UK is leading the reform agenda and that the Prime Minister has pledged a UK referendum in 2017 on membership of the reformed EU if his party is returned to government; notes the desire of the Scottish Government for independence and, in such an event, believes that the uncertainty surrounding Scotland’s admission as a new member state of the EU, including timescale and as yet unknown conditions that other member states may attach to admission together with the removal of Scotland from the proven influence of the UK as an EU member, can only weaken Scotland’s position within the EU, both in general terms and at a critical time for securing necessary reform, and considers it paradoxical and unacceptable that, while the Scottish Government argues that it is right to give Scottish voters a referendum on independence from the UK, it will, in the event of independence, then deny Scottish voters a referendum on whatever terms and conditions are negotiated.”
References in this contribution
Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-09748, in the name of Fiona Hyslop, on Scotland’s voice in the European Union.15:19
The Cabinet Secretary for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)
SNP
I am reflecting on how strange it will be not to hear Margo MacDonald’s voice and distinctive position in this debate on Europe.In the next few weeks, citize...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
I am interested in the cabinet secretary’s comments and regret that there will not be a vote on the Green amendment. Has she discussed with Mike Weir, Eilidh...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
That is why I want to give the opportunity to discuss scrutiny; people can challenge the transatlantic trade and investment partnership without disagreeing w...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
LD
The cabinet secretary appears to be in the mood for revealing information. For the past year, I have been asking for the First Minister’s speech to EU ambass...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
If Willie Rennie speaks to ministers in the UK Government, he will be told that it is not acceptable, nor is it the norm, to reveal discussions that take pla...
Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
The Deputy First Minister has said that membership of the euro is her red line. Which of the reforms that the cabinet secretary proposes would be a red line ...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I refer Drew Smith to the white paper, “Scotland’s Future”, in which we talk about “continuity of effect”, which means that there will be no detriment to oth...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab)
Lab
This is, of course, the first debate in the Parliament since the sad death of Margo MacDonald, and as such it is the first of many debates in which we will n...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
SNP
Will Patricia Ferguson take an intervention?
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I am happy to take an intervention from Mr Stevenson.
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
Patricia Ferguson will of course be wholly familiar with the acquis communautaire that is the constitution of the EU. Is she familiar with section 50, which ...
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I gently point out to Mr Stevenson that, in actual fact, the UK is the only state in these islands that has signed the treaties of the EU. If we divorce ours...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
No.
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I have to say to Mr Stevenson that I think that we will both have to wait and find out what the actual situation is, because the one thing that is absolutely...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
Order.
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
Having noted that the Scottish Government now accepts that there will have to be a period of negotiation—I do not know whether Mr Stevenson was trying to sug...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
Will Patricia Ferguson give way?
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
If the cabinet secretary can clarify that point, I will be happy to do so.
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
It is about basic democracy and sovereignty. We can choose to pool our sovereignty in the EU, but currently there is no choice.
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I am sorry that that is the kind of logic that has come to bear on the SNP’s position. It seems bizarre that the SNP would want to pool sovereignty in a situ...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
Will Patricia Ferguson give way?
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
No.The Scottish Government will tell the European Union that, in our case, it should use article 48 and that it should simply allow us to join by way of a tr...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
Will the member give way?
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
No, thank you, Mr Stewart.The fact of the matter is that article 49 of the treaty is the only existing mechanism by which membership can be negotiated. Just ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
Can we have a bit of courtesy, please?
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
The SNP also presumes that all 28 member states would be happy to allow Scotland to join the EU on its own terms, but that seems unlikely to me.
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will Patricia Ferguson take an intervention?
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I have already taken a number of interventions, thank you.Let me speak more specifically of the terms of Scotland’s membership. The SNP wants—no: it demands—...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
I thank the Scottish Government for enabling Parliament to debate the European Union. With an imminent election in May and the referendum in September, it is...