Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 22 April 2014
22 Apr 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Voice in the European Union
This is, of course, the first debate in the Parliament since the sad death of Margo MacDonald, and as such it is the first of many debates in which we will not have the benefit of Margo’s distinctive and always interesting contributions. Her take on Europe and all things European was unique and made for an interesting evidence session at the European and External Relations Committee a number of months ago when I was a member of the committee, which helped to put some of our other discussions into perspective. We will miss Margo—not just today, but for a very long time.
With elections to the European Parliament only a month away, it is opportune that we debate Scotland’s voice in Europe and consider the benefits and responsibilities that membership of the European Union brings for member states. We do so in the context of two referenda—one that, if it takes place, will decide whether the UK stays in Europe, and another that will decide whether Scotland stays in the UK.
Should the UK stay in Europe? In my view, the answer is a resounding “Yes.” Should Scotland remain part of the UK? My answer is again “Yes.” Membership of the EU has been largely positive for the UK. It has pushed forward important issues such as workers rights, human rights and environmental matters, and it has played an important role in respect of financial regulation. Looking at those areas of work, it is interesting to note that SNP MEPs refused to support a minimum extension of maternity and paternity rights and voted against making trademark protection in the EU cheaper, easier and more efficient but—strangely—they supported fiscal harmonisation within an EU-wide framework. I am not sure how that squares with their policy on corporation tax, but I will say that I do not know how any of that is compatible with standing up for Scotland. If we pool our resources in Europe and act co-operatively, we can encourage growth and development across Europe and beyond.
In recent years, the EU has also had some marked success in international diplomacy and has made a difference where other more obvious players could not. The work that Baroness Ashton has done in securing an agreement with Iran over nuclear weapons, and her diplomatic efforts in the Serbia and Kosovo dispute have earned high praise and chime well with the founding principles of the EU.
Of course, the EU could do things better, and here I agree with the cabinet secretary. It could operate a simpler structure and be less bureaucratic, and it must become more transparent and open to scrutiny. However, on the whole, it is a force for good and we would be poorer for not being a member.
That brings me to the referendum that will happen this year and the one that this debate, like every other Scottish Government debate, is actually about. I am pleased that the Scottish Government has recognised that Europe is important to Scotland and I am delighted that it now accepts that Scotland will not automatically become a member of the EU and that there will have to be a period of negotiation.
With elections to the European Parliament only a month away, it is opportune that we debate Scotland’s voice in Europe and consider the benefits and responsibilities that membership of the European Union brings for member states. We do so in the context of two referenda—one that, if it takes place, will decide whether the UK stays in Europe, and another that will decide whether Scotland stays in the UK.
Should the UK stay in Europe? In my view, the answer is a resounding “Yes.” Should Scotland remain part of the UK? My answer is again “Yes.” Membership of the EU has been largely positive for the UK. It has pushed forward important issues such as workers rights, human rights and environmental matters, and it has played an important role in respect of financial regulation. Looking at those areas of work, it is interesting to note that SNP MEPs refused to support a minimum extension of maternity and paternity rights and voted against making trademark protection in the EU cheaper, easier and more efficient but—strangely—they supported fiscal harmonisation within an EU-wide framework. I am not sure how that squares with their policy on corporation tax, but I will say that I do not know how any of that is compatible with standing up for Scotland. If we pool our resources in Europe and act co-operatively, we can encourage growth and development across Europe and beyond.
In recent years, the EU has also had some marked success in international diplomacy and has made a difference where other more obvious players could not. The work that Baroness Ashton has done in securing an agreement with Iran over nuclear weapons, and her diplomatic efforts in the Serbia and Kosovo dispute have earned high praise and chime well with the founding principles of the EU.
Of course, the EU could do things better, and here I agree with the cabinet secretary. It could operate a simpler structure and be less bureaucratic, and it must become more transparent and open to scrutiny. However, on the whole, it is a force for good and we would be poorer for not being a member.
That brings me to the referendum that will happen this year and the one that this debate, like every other Scottish Government debate, is actually about. I am pleased that the Scottish Government has recognised that Europe is important to Scotland and I am delighted that it now accepts that Scotland will not automatically become a member of the EU and that there will have to be a period of negotiation.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-09748, in the name of Fiona Hyslop, on Scotland’s voice in the European Union.15:19
The Cabinet Secretary for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)
SNP
I am reflecting on how strange it will be not to hear Margo MacDonald’s voice and distinctive position in this debate on Europe.In the next few weeks, citize...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
I am interested in the cabinet secretary’s comments and regret that there will not be a vote on the Green amendment. Has she discussed with Mike Weir, Eilidh...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
That is why I want to give the opportunity to discuss scrutiny; people can challenge the transatlantic trade and investment partnership without disagreeing w...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
LD
The cabinet secretary appears to be in the mood for revealing information. For the past year, I have been asking for the First Minister’s speech to EU ambass...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
If Willie Rennie speaks to ministers in the UK Government, he will be told that it is not acceptable, nor is it the norm, to reveal discussions that take pla...
Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
The Deputy First Minister has said that membership of the euro is her red line. Which of the reforms that the cabinet secretary proposes would be a red line ...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I refer Drew Smith to the white paper, “Scotland’s Future”, in which we talk about “continuity of effect”, which means that there will be no detriment to oth...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab)
Lab
This is, of course, the first debate in the Parliament since the sad death of Margo MacDonald, and as such it is the first of many debates in which we will n...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
SNP
Will Patricia Ferguson take an intervention?
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I am happy to take an intervention from Mr Stevenson.
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
Patricia Ferguson will of course be wholly familiar with the acquis communautaire that is the constitution of the EU. Is she familiar with section 50, which ...
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I gently point out to Mr Stevenson that, in actual fact, the UK is the only state in these islands that has signed the treaties of the EU. If we divorce ours...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
No.
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I have to say to Mr Stevenson that I think that we will both have to wait and find out what the actual situation is, because the one thing that is absolutely...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
Order.
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
Having noted that the Scottish Government now accepts that there will have to be a period of negotiation—I do not know whether Mr Stevenson was trying to sug...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
Will Patricia Ferguson give way?
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
If the cabinet secretary can clarify that point, I will be happy to do so.
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
It is about basic democracy and sovereignty. We can choose to pool our sovereignty in the EU, but currently there is no choice.
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I am sorry that that is the kind of logic that has come to bear on the SNP’s position. It seems bizarre that the SNP would want to pool sovereignty in a situ...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
Will Patricia Ferguson give way?
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
No.The Scottish Government will tell the European Union that, in our case, it should use article 48 and that it should simply allow us to join by way of a tr...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
Will the member give way?
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
No, thank you, Mr Stewart.The fact of the matter is that article 49 of the treaty is the only existing mechanism by which membership can be negotiated. Just ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
Can we have a bit of courtesy, please?
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
The SNP also presumes that all 28 member states would be happy to allow Scotland to join the EU on its own terms, but that seems unlikely to me.
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will Patricia Ferguson take an intervention?
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I have already taken a number of interventions, thank you.Let me speak more specifically of the terms of Scotland’s membership. The SNP wants—no: it demands—...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
I thank the Scottish Government for enabling Parliament to debate the European Union. With an imminent election in May and the referendum in September, it is...