Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 22 April 2014
22 Apr 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Voice in the European Union
I refer Drew Smith to the white paper, “Scotland’s Future”, in which we talk about “continuity of effect”, which means that there will be no detriment to other members in areas such as operation of the budget. Surely by now the member understands that to become a member of the eurozone a country must have voluntarily been a member of the exchange rate mechanism for several years, which we do not intend, and would not be expected, to do.
In relation to the proposals in our paper on EU reform, we make a distinction between the legislative and policy competences that are assigned to the EU by the treaties, on one hand, and the manner in which the EU institutions discharge their legislative prerogative, on the other. In some areas of policy, focus on use of directives rather than regulations would allow more flexibility for Parliaments such as this to scrutinise them and to reflect on local circumstances.
Independence will give Scotland its own voice in Europe, ensuring that Scotland participates at every level in the EU policy process, and that the Scottish Government is able to promote Scotland’s national interests in EU affairs. In an independent country, our farmers would have benefited from the EU pillar 1 minimum rate of €196 per hectare, which would have meant an extra €1 billion in support over the convergence period. Under the existing CAP agreement, Scotland is set to go to the bottom of the EU league table on the average pillar 1 payment rate.
Direct representation in the EU will protect Scotland’s economic and social interests against the uncertainties and adverse consequences of the Prime Minister’s proposed in/out referendum on Europe, which raises the risk of the UK exiting the EU, with potentially significant adverse consequences for jobs, investment and prosperity. If Scotland remains under the rule of a Westminster system that withdraws from the EU, our influence in the world will be severely diminished.
What will the EU look like in 2020 and beyond? It will certainly be different from the EU of today. I foresee a more accountable and democratic Europe. I foresee a Europe that is back on the path to prosperity, with continued security in terms of social justice, energy and high youth employment—a Europe for future generations.
I look forward to working alongside members of this Parliament to ensure that Scotland’s voice continues to be heard in discussions about the future of the EU. I welcome this opportunity to debate the important role that we can play within Europe.
I move,
That the Parliament recognises the importance of Scotland having a strong voice in the EU; believes that Scotland has built a positive foundation for engaging on EU matters and continues to play a progressive role internationally; recognises Scotland’s strong commitment to learning and sharing experience and expertise with other European countries, as highlighted in the Scotland in the European Union paper and the Nordic Baltic Policy Statement; further recognises that, as an independent member state in the EU, Scotland would be able to join the other 28 member states in participating directly in all EU legislation and policy negotiations, ensuring that it is well placed to foster coalitions of support across other member states that will further Scotland’s national interests; believes that Scotland will contribute constructively to the common European interest, drawing on the priorities for improvement and for reform set out in the paper, Scotland’s Priorities for EU Reform, and recognises that direct representation in the EU will protect Scotland’s economic and social interests against the uncertainties and adverse consequences of a UK in/out referendum raising the risk that the UK may exit the EU.
15:34
In relation to the proposals in our paper on EU reform, we make a distinction between the legislative and policy competences that are assigned to the EU by the treaties, on one hand, and the manner in which the EU institutions discharge their legislative prerogative, on the other. In some areas of policy, focus on use of directives rather than regulations would allow more flexibility for Parliaments such as this to scrutinise them and to reflect on local circumstances.
Independence will give Scotland its own voice in Europe, ensuring that Scotland participates at every level in the EU policy process, and that the Scottish Government is able to promote Scotland’s national interests in EU affairs. In an independent country, our farmers would have benefited from the EU pillar 1 minimum rate of €196 per hectare, which would have meant an extra €1 billion in support over the convergence period. Under the existing CAP agreement, Scotland is set to go to the bottom of the EU league table on the average pillar 1 payment rate.
Direct representation in the EU will protect Scotland’s economic and social interests against the uncertainties and adverse consequences of the Prime Minister’s proposed in/out referendum on Europe, which raises the risk of the UK exiting the EU, with potentially significant adverse consequences for jobs, investment and prosperity. If Scotland remains under the rule of a Westminster system that withdraws from the EU, our influence in the world will be severely diminished.
What will the EU look like in 2020 and beyond? It will certainly be different from the EU of today. I foresee a more accountable and democratic Europe. I foresee a Europe that is back on the path to prosperity, with continued security in terms of social justice, energy and high youth employment—a Europe for future generations.
I look forward to working alongside members of this Parliament to ensure that Scotland’s voice continues to be heard in discussions about the future of the EU. I welcome this opportunity to debate the important role that we can play within Europe.
I move,
That the Parliament recognises the importance of Scotland having a strong voice in the EU; believes that Scotland has built a positive foundation for engaging on EU matters and continues to play a progressive role internationally; recognises Scotland’s strong commitment to learning and sharing experience and expertise with other European countries, as highlighted in the Scotland in the European Union paper and the Nordic Baltic Policy Statement; further recognises that, as an independent member state in the EU, Scotland would be able to join the other 28 member states in participating directly in all EU legislation and policy negotiations, ensuring that it is well placed to foster coalitions of support across other member states that will further Scotland’s national interests; believes that Scotland will contribute constructively to the common European interest, drawing on the priorities for improvement and for reform set out in the paper, Scotland’s Priorities for EU Reform, and recognises that direct representation in the EU will protect Scotland’s economic and social interests against the uncertainties and adverse consequences of a UK in/out referendum raising the risk that the UK may exit the EU.
15:34
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-09748, in the name of Fiona Hyslop, on Scotland’s voice in the European Union.15:19
The Cabinet Secretary for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)
SNP
I am reflecting on how strange it will be not to hear Margo MacDonald’s voice and distinctive position in this debate on Europe.In the next few weeks, citize...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
I am interested in the cabinet secretary’s comments and regret that there will not be a vote on the Green amendment. Has she discussed with Mike Weir, Eilidh...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
That is why I want to give the opportunity to discuss scrutiny; people can challenge the transatlantic trade and investment partnership without disagreeing w...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
LD
The cabinet secretary appears to be in the mood for revealing information. For the past year, I have been asking for the First Minister’s speech to EU ambass...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
If Willie Rennie speaks to ministers in the UK Government, he will be told that it is not acceptable, nor is it the norm, to reveal discussions that take pla...
Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
The Deputy First Minister has said that membership of the euro is her red line. Which of the reforms that the cabinet secretary proposes would be a red line ...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I refer Drew Smith to the white paper, “Scotland’s Future”, in which we talk about “continuity of effect”, which means that there will be no detriment to oth...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab)
Lab
This is, of course, the first debate in the Parliament since the sad death of Margo MacDonald, and as such it is the first of many debates in which we will n...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
SNP
Will Patricia Ferguson take an intervention?
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I am happy to take an intervention from Mr Stevenson.
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
Patricia Ferguson will of course be wholly familiar with the acquis communautaire that is the constitution of the EU. Is she familiar with section 50, which ...
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I gently point out to Mr Stevenson that, in actual fact, the UK is the only state in these islands that has signed the treaties of the EU. If we divorce ours...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
No.
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I have to say to Mr Stevenson that I think that we will both have to wait and find out what the actual situation is, because the one thing that is absolutely...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
Order.
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
Having noted that the Scottish Government now accepts that there will have to be a period of negotiation—I do not know whether Mr Stevenson was trying to sug...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
Will Patricia Ferguson give way?
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
If the cabinet secretary can clarify that point, I will be happy to do so.
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
It is about basic democracy and sovereignty. We can choose to pool our sovereignty in the EU, but currently there is no choice.
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I am sorry that that is the kind of logic that has come to bear on the SNP’s position. It seems bizarre that the SNP would want to pool sovereignty in a situ...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
Will Patricia Ferguson give way?
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
No.The Scottish Government will tell the European Union that, in our case, it should use article 48 and that it should simply allow us to join by way of a tr...
Kevin Stewart
SNP
Will the member give way?
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
No, thank you, Mr Stewart.The fact of the matter is that article 49 of the treaty is the only existing mechanism by which membership can be negotiated. Just ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
Can we have a bit of courtesy, please?
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
The SNP also presumes that all 28 member states would be happy to allow Scotland to join the EU on its own terms, but that seems unlikely to me.
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will Patricia Ferguson take an intervention?
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I have already taken a number of interventions, thank you.Let me speak more specifically of the terms of Scotland’s membership. The SNP wants—no: it demands—...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
I thank the Scottish Government for enabling Parliament to debate the European Union. With an imminent election in May and the referendum in September, it is...