Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 19 February 2014
19 Feb 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
I return to the wording of amendment 116 and reiterate what it would do and what it would not. It would require Scottish ministers to set up a body to consider whether the UNCRC should be given legislative effect. It does not state what sort of body that should be, nor does it insist that the UNCRC should be given legislative effect. It would allow ministers and indeed MSPs to charge that body with exploring all the issues relating to this matter. The body would have to lay its report before Parliament and Scottish ministers would be expected to respond. At no point in that process would there be a burden, responsibility or even an expectation on Scottish ministers and MSPs to commit to giving legislative effect to the UNCRC.
As someone who believes passionately in creating a rights-based society for all, I hope that the option of giving legislative effect to the UNCRC would be explored fully and that the body would conclude that that would be the appropriate thing to do. I hope, too, that the body would provide advice on how and when to do so. However, committing to establishing the body would not commit future Governments or Parliaments to its recommendations. We would still be able to make that democratic decision, which is as it should be.
I have made my views clear on why I think it is important for Scotland to incorporate the UNCRC into our legislative framework, but far greater politicians than me have called on us all to do more for children. Someone said:
“Our children are our greatest treasure. They are our future.”
He also said:
“History will judge us by the difference we make in the everyday lives of children.”
There are many reasons to follow the teachings and words of the late, great Nelson Mandela. Throughout his presidency and his retirement, Mandela championed the cause of children. His love for children and his appreciation of their needs, rights and interests, and of society’s duty and responsibility to protect and nurture them by being child centred and furthering their rights, provide us with more and indeed compelling reasons to do as I suggest.
I uphold my amendment 116.
As someone who believes passionately in creating a rights-based society for all, I hope that the option of giving legislative effect to the UNCRC would be explored fully and that the body would conclude that that would be the appropriate thing to do. I hope, too, that the body would provide advice on how and when to do so. However, committing to establishing the body would not commit future Governments or Parliaments to its recommendations. We would still be able to make that democratic decision, which is as it should be.
I have made my views clear on why I think it is important for Scotland to incorporate the UNCRC into our legislative framework, but far greater politicians than me have called on us all to do more for children. Someone said:
“Our children are our greatest treasure. They are our future.”
He also said:
“History will judge us by the difference we make in the everyday lives of children.”
There are many reasons to follow the teachings and words of the late, great Nelson Mandela. Throughout his presidency and his retirement, Mandela championed the cause of children. His love for children and his appreciation of their needs, rights and interests, and of society’s duty and responsibility to protect and nurture them by being child centred and furthering their rights, provide us with more and indeed compelling reasons to do as I suggest.
I uphold my amendment 116.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
We move to stage 3 proceedings on the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill. Members should have copies of the bill as amended at stage 2, the marshalled...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Group 1 is on duties of Scottish ministers in relation to the rights of children. Amendment 116, in the name of Jean Urquhart, is grouped with amendments 117...
Jean Urquhart (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
The stated policy intention behind the bill is to contribute to Scotland being the best place for children to grow up, and I applaud that intention. It is vi...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
The bill represents the coming together of two pieces of proposed legislation, one of which is a bill on children’s rights. As Jean Urquhart identified, the ...
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to respond to the range of amendments that focus on part 1 of the bill. The bill will ensure that children’s rights properly influe...
Liam McArthur
LD
I listened carefully to what the minister said. She seemed to be concerned that amendment 125 overlaps with amendment 126. That would make sense if she inten...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
As I have said, we are developing that. That is something that we will achieve in order to ensure that we make rights real for children and that the UNCRC is...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green)
Green
It has, at times, been difficult to articulate through this bill the potential impact of the United Nations convention on the rights of the child on children...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak to amendments 121, 123 and 124 in my name as well as the other amendments in the group.Although I join members of all part...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Over a lengthy period, I have listened very carefully to what has been the most challenging but nevertheless one of the most interesting aspects of the debat...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Like Liz Smith, I listened as part of the Education and Culture Committee to the evidence on this section of the bill. Like the rest of the committee, I came...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
Minister, would you like to respond to any of the points that were made in the debate? You do not have to by any measure.
Aileen Campbell
SNP
Joan McAlpine raised the fact that the committee did not support the full incorporation of the UNCRC, and I reflect again on Professor Ken Norrie’s comments ...
Jean Urquhart
Ind
I return to the wording of amendment 116 and reiterate what it would do and what it would not. It would require Scottish ministers to set up a body to consid...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
I am afraid that I did not hear what you said. Are you pressing or withdrawing your amendment?
Jean Urquhart
Ind
I am upholding it—I am pressing it.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
Right. The question is, that amendment 116 be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
There will be a division. We will have it shortly, as there will now be a five-minute gap—the word I am looking for is “suspension”.14:40 Meeting suspended. ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
We move to the division on amendment 116.ForBaillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Baker, Richard (North East Scotland...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
The result of the division is: For 36, Against 84, Abstentions 0.Amendment 116 disagreed to.Section 1—Duties of Scottish Ministers in relation to the rights ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
The question is, that amendment 117 be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
There will be a division.ForBaillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Baker, Richard (North East Scotland) (Lab) Baxter, ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
The result of the division is: For 55, Against 65, Abstentions 0.Amendment 117 disagreed to.Amendment 118 moved—Liam McArthur.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
The question is, that amendment 118 be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
There will be a division.ForBaillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Baker, Richard (North East Scotland) (Lab) Baxter, ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
The result of the division is: For 56, Against 65, Abstentions 0.Amendment 118 disagreed to.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
Group 2 is on duties in relation to article 7 of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. Amendment 92, in the name of Siobhan McMahon, ...
Siobhan McMahon (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
As I said at stage 2, the reason why we require the addition of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities is to give additional assurance ...
Liz Smith
Con
As I mentioned at stage 2, I have a great deal of sympathy for the intent of Siobhan McMahon’s amendments, and by bringing them to stage 3, she has allowed u...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
Amendments 92 and 94 to 100 seek to place requirements on Scottish ministers and public bodies to take steps with the aim of furthering the rights set out un...