Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 14 January 2014
14 Jan 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Draft Climate Change Adaptation Programme
My preparing for the debate prompted me to re-read in detail the evidence on the draft programme that was given during two stakeholder meetings that were held on 30 October last year. I remember at the time sitting in committee and feeling quite invigorated by what I had heard. Going over the Official Report ahead of this afternoon’s debate had a similar effect. The evidence that we received was as constructive and detailed as it was wide ranging, so on behalf of the committee members I record our appreciation of the contribution that witnesses and stakeholders made to our deliberations. I also concur with the minister who, in his letter responding to the committee’s report, said that the process had
“provided valuable insights and raised useful questions”.
Across the panels, there was absolute unanimity on the fact that the impacts of climate change are being felt right across society. Professor Des Thompson of Scottish Natural Heritage told us:
“We are now seeing in our seas and mountains and on the coast rapid changes such as have never been witnessed before in a similar timeframe.”—[Official Report, Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee, 30 October 2013; c 2822-23.]
Andrew Bauer of NFU Scotland told us:
“From a farming point of view, the impacts are already here ... The growing seasons have changed, and farmers are already adapting what they are growing because extreme weather events are making potentially higher-profit crops more risky to plant.”—[Official Report, Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee, 30 October 2013; c 2823.]
Jim Densham of RSPB Scotland revealed that, across various RSPB sites including some of Scotland’s “most special places”,
“every day issues and impacts”—[Official Report, Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee, 30 October 2013; c 2824.]
are being seen that cannot be disentangled from climate change.
David Goodhew of the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service admitted that the past decade had seen recognition that the impacts of climate change are more variable and wide reaching than was previously anticipated. He explained that the Fire and Rescue Service is now having to purchase more four-by-four vehicles with differential locks on rear axles and exhaust pipes set higher than 18 inches in order to meet the challenging range of circumstances in which the service must operate.
It is widely recognised that we have significant challenges to which to respond. Although the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs secretary of state, Owen Paterson, has sought to portray the consequences of climate change as offering an opportunity for agriculture, Andrew Bauer revealed that the sector in Scotland does not entirely share that viewpoint. He told us:
“we can foresee the benefits. However, the uncertainty could wipe them all out; you might be okay one year in five, but for the other four years you ... could suffer significant problems. ... I am not betting my house ... on the benefits outweighing the negatives that we have to deal with.”—[Official Report, Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee, 30 October 2013; c 2837.]
One specific downside that he predicted was that, in the future, we will see a decline in areas that are fit for production in some of our farming heartlands.
What is going on out there as we react to the impacts of climate change? What are we as a society doing well, and what do we need to do better? Let me deal first specifically with the adaptation policy. We were told that the Government had made good strides in implementing and developing the existing framework. The move away from a sectoral approach towards an integrated package was welcomed—albeit that there was a call for that to be built on. Jim Densham rightly made the point—as Alex Fergusson and Patrick Harvie have—that we need to think beyond five-year programmes of objectives, proposals and policies, which give us a short-term look at, and control over, what needs to happen, but do not consider the longer term. As Mr Densham said, we need to be clear about where we are going and how we will deliver a resilient and adaptable Scotland. That is something that he feels does not quite come across in the draft programme.
“provided valuable insights and raised useful questions”.
Across the panels, there was absolute unanimity on the fact that the impacts of climate change are being felt right across society. Professor Des Thompson of Scottish Natural Heritage told us:
“We are now seeing in our seas and mountains and on the coast rapid changes such as have never been witnessed before in a similar timeframe.”—[Official Report, Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee, 30 October 2013; c 2822-23.]
Andrew Bauer of NFU Scotland told us:
“From a farming point of view, the impacts are already here ... The growing seasons have changed, and farmers are already adapting what they are growing because extreme weather events are making potentially higher-profit crops more risky to plant.”—[Official Report, Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee, 30 October 2013; c 2823.]
Jim Densham of RSPB Scotland revealed that, across various RSPB sites including some of Scotland’s “most special places”,
“every day issues and impacts”—[Official Report, Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee, 30 October 2013; c 2824.]
are being seen that cannot be disentangled from climate change.
David Goodhew of the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service admitted that the past decade had seen recognition that the impacts of climate change are more variable and wide reaching than was previously anticipated. He explained that the Fire and Rescue Service is now having to purchase more four-by-four vehicles with differential locks on rear axles and exhaust pipes set higher than 18 inches in order to meet the challenging range of circumstances in which the service must operate.
It is widely recognised that we have significant challenges to which to respond. Although the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs secretary of state, Owen Paterson, has sought to portray the consequences of climate change as offering an opportunity for agriculture, Andrew Bauer revealed that the sector in Scotland does not entirely share that viewpoint. He told us:
“we can foresee the benefits. However, the uncertainty could wipe them all out; you might be okay one year in five, but for the other four years you ... could suffer significant problems. ... I am not betting my house ... on the benefits outweighing the negatives that we have to deal with.”—[Official Report, Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee, 30 October 2013; c 2837.]
One specific downside that he predicted was that, in the future, we will see a decline in areas that are fit for production in some of our farming heartlands.
What is going on out there as we react to the impacts of climate change? What are we as a society doing well, and what do we need to do better? Let me deal first specifically with the adaptation policy. We were told that the Government had made good strides in implementing and developing the existing framework. The move away from a sectoral approach towards an integrated package was welcomed—albeit that there was a call for that to be built on. Jim Densham rightly made the point—as Alex Fergusson and Patrick Harvie have—that we need to think beyond five-year programmes of objectives, proposals and policies, which give us a short-term look at, and control over, what needs to happen, but do not consider the longer term. As Mr Densham said, we need to be clear about where we are going and how we will deliver a resilient and adaptable Scotland. That is something that he feels does not quite come across in the draft programme.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-08732, in the name of Rob Gibson, on the Scottish Government’s consultation on its draft climate change a...
Rob Gibson (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
SNP
Presiding Officer, I crave your indulgence as I try to get all the detail in.Change and adaptation are rarely easy. How many psychiatrists does it take to ch...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I remind members who wish to speak in the debate that they should press their request-to-speak buttons. I call Paul Wheelhouse. Minister, you have seven minu...
The Minister for Environment and Climate Change (Paul Wheelhouse)
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer.I thank the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee for its efforts in scrutinising the draft Scottish climate c...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Minister, will you draw to a close, please?
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
I will, Presiding Officer.I hope to pick up on some additional points in my closing speech. Suffice it to say that Scotland is well placed to respond to clim...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
This committee debate is extremely important and timely as it comes in the immediate aftermath of the recent severe weather and flooding. They focused all ou...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
Can you draw to a close, please?
Claudia Beamish
Lab
That chimes with some of the committee’s recommendations. I ask the minister to take forward those fundamental governance issues in the final adaptation prog...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Con
I am not a great fan of the phrase “adopting a holistic approach”, but one thing is for sure: if climate change adaptation is to be successfully mainstreamed...
Angus MacDonald (Falkirk East) (SNP)
SNP
I say at the outset that I am pleased to contribute to the debate. It is an important issue that requires the attention of all parliamentarians and all commi...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the committee and witnesses for their work in getting us to this debate today.I want to focus on the processes and principles of adaptation in relati...
Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
SNP
I hardly need to point out in the early part of 2014 that climate change is with us. We have clearly reached the point where it does not matter why it is hap...
Nigel Don
SNP
Yes; that is long overdue. We cannot do things with land without maps, so I am delighted to hear that we have got that far. I must take issue with what has b...
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD)
LD
Like many other members, I was proud to put through the Parliament the Climate Change (Scotland) Bill back in 2009. Although at the time there were differenc...
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the debate, and I thank the committee for bringing it to the chamber and for the work that it has done in assessing the draft climate change adapta...
Cara Hilton (Dunfermline) (Lab)
Lab
We have robust evidence for global warming, as colleagues have already said, but there are still many unknowns and variables involved in predicting exactly h...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
It is probably fair to say that climate change adaptation often plays second fiddle to the mitigation agenda and the urgent need to reduce our emissions. Tha...
Alex Fergusson
Con
The debate has seen a fair amount of consensus throughout the chamber, which is very much as it should be in a debate of this nature. Climate change presents...
Claudia Beamish
Lab
I stress that a thread running through the adaptation programme is the value of interconnections and partnerships, showing the need for clear paths of commun...
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
I thank members. I agree with Alex Fergusson that the debate has been consensual. It has been rightly so, because we are talking about a matter that cuts acr...
Alex Fergusson
Con
Do targets have a role to play in monitoring and evaluation?
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
I think that they do. Nigel Don made valid points about that. It is important to have a focus that drives effort, and the maxim about what is measured being ...
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP)
SNP
My preparing for the debate prompted me to re-read in detail the evidence on the draft programme that was given during two stakeholder meetings that were hel...
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
I thank the deputy convener for taking an intervention and I apologise for interrupting. The Climate Change (Scotland) Act 2009 specified a five-year time ho...
Graeme Dey
SNP
I thank the minister for that input. We are aware that they are five-year programmes, but there is a general point that we must look as far beyond that timef...
Sarah Boyack
Lab
Graeme Dey has made an extremely useful point about the capacity of institutions to provide practical examples of what we can all do. Institutions such as co...
Graeme Dey
SNP
Sarah Boyack has made a very good point. I do not think that there is anything that I can add to that.There is so much more that can be done, as Sarah Boyack...