Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 14 January 2014
14 Jan 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Draft Climate Change Adaptation Programme
Yes; that is long overdue. We cannot do things with land without maps, so I am delighted to hear that we have got that far.
I must take issue with what has been said—if not with what has been meant—about targets and measurement, because it seems to me that we need to distinguish between them.
If you will forgive me, Presiding Officer, I am going to go on a journey. As most of us will know, getting around our constituency means that we have to drive a car. There is no alternative in practice for most of us. I have never had a very modern car, but if one has a relatively modern car, it has at the front a miles per gallon display showing the current miles per gallon—which does not tell us very much, apart from the obvious—and the average miles per gallon for the trip. If that is anything like accurate and reproducible, that is an extraordinarily useful number. I shall put on my factory engineer’s hat and tell the chamber once more that what gets measured gets done.
People have in front of them a number that tells them on average the fuel efficiency of their driving. Remarkably, it is still in miles per gallon, which I do not think are metric units, but never mind. If I knew what best practice was for a specific journey, I could set a target, but no target is any use if it is not relevant to what I am currently trying to do. If I am doing something for the first time, a target is totally meaningless. However, that measurement is crucial because, no matter what figure we start from, every single one of us instinctively will look at the miles per gallon figure and think about what we can do to get it to be bigger. We need to be careful not to come up with arbitrary targets, which are not helpful, and we need to be sure that what we measure and reproduce is accurate, because then targets will set themselves.
I am conscious of time, so I will move quickly on. Last year, the cross-party group in the Scottish Parliament on construction had a presentation from Retrofit Scotland, which is an ad hoc organisation of professionals who are trying to put together case studies and examples of how we in Scotland should adapt our buildings for the future. That has climate change very much in mind, because we have to get fuel efficiency up for all the reasons that we now understand. I tell the minister that the group would very much welcome Government support and interest. It is a professional group of bodies that have come together entirely off their own bat and at their own expense. It would be very much appreciated if the Government would interact with that group.
Finally, I will mention flooding, because I just have to. I thank the minister for signing off the scheme in my home city of Brechin. As I understand it, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities now has to come up with the money, so we will twist as many arms as we possibly can. I also thank Aberdeenshire Council for coming up with a scheme in Stonehaven, which I know the minister supports. I encourage the minister to proceed with that as fast as is conceivably possible for the good of my constituents.
16:17
I must take issue with what has been said—if not with what has been meant—about targets and measurement, because it seems to me that we need to distinguish between them.
If you will forgive me, Presiding Officer, I am going to go on a journey. As most of us will know, getting around our constituency means that we have to drive a car. There is no alternative in practice for most of us. I have never had a very modern car, but if one has a relatively modern car, it has at the front a miles per gallon display showing the current miles per gallon—which does not tell us very much, apart from the obvious—and the average miles per gallon for the trip. If that is anything like accurate and reproducible, that is an extraordinarily useful number. I shall put on my factory engineer’s hat and tell the chamber once more that what gets measured gets done.
People have in front of them a number that tells them on average the fuel efficiency of their driving. Remarkably, it is still in miles per gallon, which I do not think are metric units, but never mind. If I knew what best practice was for a specific journey, I could set a target, but no target is any use if it is not relevant to what I am currently trying to do. If I am doing something for the first time, a target is totally meaningless. However, that measurement is crucial because, no matter what figure we start from, every single one of us instinctively will look at the miles per gallon figure and think about what we can do to get it to be bigger. We need to be careful not to come up with arbitrary targets, which are not helpful, and we need to be sure that what we measure and reproduce is accurate, because then targets will set themselves.
I am conscious of time, so I will move quickly on. Last year, the cross-party group in the Scottish Parliament on construction had a presentation from Retrofit Scotland, which is an ad hoc organisation of professionals who are trying to put together case studies and examples of how we in Scotland should adapt our buildings for the future. That has climate change very much in mind, because we have to get fuel efficiency up for all the reasons that we now understand. I tell the minister that the group would very much welcome Government support and interest. It is a professional group of bodies that have come together entirely off their own bat and at their own expense. It would be very much appreciated if the Government would interact with that group.
Finally, I will mention flooding, because I just have to. I thank the minister for signing off the scheme in my home city of Brechin. As I understand it, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities now has to come up with the money, so we will twist as many arms as we possibly can. I also thank Aberdeenshire Council for coming up with a scheme in Stonehaven, which I know the minister supports. I encourage the minister to proceed with that as fast as is conceivably possible for the good of my constituents.
16:17
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-08732, in the name of Rob Gibson, on the Scottish Government’s consultation on its draft climate change a...
Rob Gibson (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
SNP
Presiding Officer, I crave your indulgence as I try to get all the detail in.Change and adaptation are rarely easy. How many psychiatrists does it take to ch...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I remind members who wish to speak in the debate that they should press their request-to-speak buttons. I call Paul Wheelhouse. Minister, you have seven minu...
The Minister for Environment and Climate Change (Paul Wheelhouse)
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer.I thank the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee for its efforts in scrutinising the draft Scottish climate c...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Minister, will you draw to a close, please?
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
I will, Presiding Officer.I hope to pick up on some additional points in my closing speech. Suffice it to say that Scotland is well placed to respond to clim...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
This committee debate is extremely important and timely as it comes in the immediate aftermath of the recent severe weather and flooding. They focused all ou...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
Can you draw to a close, please?
Claudia Beamish
Lab
That chimes with some of the committee’s recommendations. I ask the minister to take forward those fundamental governance issues in the final adaptation prog...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Con
I am not a great fan of the phrase “adopting a holistic approach”, but one thing is for sure: if climate change adaptation is to be successfully mainstreamed...
Angus MacDonald (Falkirk East) (SNP)
SNP
I say at the outset that I am pleased to contribute to the debate. It is an important issue that requires the attention of all parliamentarians and all commi...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the committee and witnesses for their work in getting us to this debate today.I want to focus on the processes and principles of adaptation in relati...
Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
SNP
I hardly need to point out in the early part of 2014 that climate change is with us. We have clearly reached the point where it does not matter why it is hap...
Nigel Don
SNP
Yes; that is long overdue. We cannot do things with land without maps, so I am delighted to hear that we have got that far. I must take issue with what has b...
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD)
LD
Like many other members, I was proud to put through the Parliament the Climate Change (Scotland) Bill back in 2009. Although at the time there were differenc...
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the debate, and I thank the committee for bringing it to the chamber and for the work that it has done in assessing the draft climate change adapta...
Cara Hilton (Dunfermline) (Lab)
Lab
We have robust evidence for global warming, as colleagues have already said, but there are still many unknowns and variables involved in predicting exactly h...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
It is probably fair to say that climate change adaptation often plays second fiddle to the mitigation agenda and the urgent need to reduce our emissions. Tha...
Alex Fergusson
Con
The debate has seen a fair amount of consensus throughout the chamber, which is very much as it should be in a debate of this nature. Climate change presents...
Claudia Beamish
Lab
I stress that a thread running through the adaptation programme is the value of interconnections and partnerships, showing the need for clear paths of commun...
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
I thank members. I agree with Alex Fergusson that the debate has been consensual. It has been rightly so, because we are talking about a matter that cuts acr...
Alex Fergusson
Con
Do targets have a role to play in monitoring and evaluation?
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
I think that they do. Nigel Don made valid points about that. It is important to have a focus that drives effort, and the maxim about what is measured being ...
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP)
SNP
My preparing for the debate prompted me to re-read in detail the evidence on the draft programme that was given during two stakeholder meetings that were hel...
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
I thank the deputy convener for taking an intervention and I apologise for interrupting. The Climate Change (Scotland) Act 2009 specified a five-year time ho...
Graeme Dey
SNP
I thank the minister for that input. We are aware that they are five-year programmes, but there is a general point that we must look as far beyond that timef...
Sarah Boyack
Lab
Graeme Dey has made an extremely useful point about the capacity of institutions to provide practical examples of what we can all do. Institutions such as co...
Graeme Dey
SNP
Sarah Boyack has made a very good point. I do not think that there is anything that I can add to that.There is so much more that can be done, as Sarah Boyack...