Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 05 December 2013
05 Dec 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Taking Children into Care
I put on record apologies from my colleague Mary Scanlon, who was due to participate in the debate. As a result of the travel situation she has had to head back to the Highlands for a constituency event rather earlier than she was anticipating, so I pass on her apologies to the Presiding Officer and to members in the chamber.
The extent of the challenge that faces the Parliament—and most especially the Education and Culture Committee—has never really been in doubt. In the past few years, during the most recent inquiry and the previous one, it has been patently clear that the Scottish care system is letting down far too many young people. In preparing the report we heard time and again from charities and third sector organisations and, most important, from young people in the care system, that most—though by no means all—of the concern centres on the decision-making process.
Before I turn to the report and to the Government’s response, I acknowledge the very real frustration, which stretches well beyond Holyrood, at the length of time that it is taking to meaningfully address the issue of looked-after children. All parties in the chamber have shared a common commitment to making the Scottish care system as effective as possible, and yet for all the goodwill and endeavour we seem to find ourselves back at first principles time and again. We have been very good at the diagnostic process, but much less good at finding a cure.
For instance, when the Scottish Children’s Reporter Administration published its 2011 report there was real hope that progress would follow very soon after. However, two-and-a-half years on, we are still very much stuck with the same problems. Indeed, the minister indicated in her response to the committee’s report that the Scottish Government is aware of that situation and intends to review the care and permanence plan, with a revised strategy due early in the new year, which is good to hear. We all recognise the huge sensitivities that are involved in the issue, but we need to ensure that changes are well-balanced and properly implemented. Likewise, I think that we all feel a little guilty that the pace of reform has been too slow.
During our deliberations we have all been considering why we have made so little progress, given the extent of the good will that I mentioned. There has been considerable cross-party support, and the issue has been placed further up the political agenda, for which I give the Scottish Government credit.
Have we been missing some key points, or failing to listen to the right people? Perhaps the most uncomfortable question of all is whether we are relatively powerless when it comes to dealing with some situations. There might be a little bit of that—certainly that is what we were bluntly told by two of the witness panels—but the lack of progress is also due to the weaknesses inherent in some of the data that has been essential in uncovering the problems in the decision-making process. It has also resulted from poor transparency, although that was not intentional.
That said, there is no weakness or lack of transparency when it comes to the blunt statistics that define the problem. Some of them are truly shocking. Although 56 per cent of school leavers overall gain five or more qualifications, only 4.7 per cent of children who are looked after away from home and 0.5 per cent of children who are looked after at home can expect the same degree of attainment. That is not a small disparity but a gaping chasm that reflects very poorly on us all.
Moreover, while 87.5 per cent of school leavers are engaged in work, education or training, only half of those who are looked after at home are doing the same. We are really not doing them any justice whatsoever by not enabling them to acquire the relevant skills to participate in a modern workforce, and that has lifelong implications.
During our most recent inquiry we heard troubling evidence from the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children that, in Glasgow, two thirds of children who have left care to return home end up back in the system within a year. Oscillating between pillar and post, those youngsters are at serious risk of being left behind completely.
We have been good at the diagnosis, but what is the cure? There is no doubt that much of it will have to focus on the decision-making process, because it is clear that, as many of the witnesses told us, too many barriers remain in the way of good decision making. Those barriers mean that too many children are being left in unsuitable home environments. Decision making is inconsistent and variable across the country; the system does not use resources sufficiently well; and some groups find it far too difficult to have the courage of their convictions and remove a child—I can well understand why.
In response, perhaps the key recommendation is on early permanence: the idea that, by intervening earlier, children are removed from an unstable home environment and given the foundation that they need to grow and prosper. A consensus is emerging that, together, early intervention and early permanence can deliver much better outcomes for children, families and communities. The whole package, if I can call it that, is important.
The extent of the challenge that faces the Parliament—and most especially the Education and Culture Committee—has never really been in doubt. In the past few years, during the most recent inquiry and the previous one, it has been patently clear that the Scottish care system is letting down far too many young people. In preparing the report we heard time and again from charities and third sector organisations and, most important, from young people in the care system, that most—though by no means all—of the concern centres on the decision-making process.
Before I turn to the report and to the Government’s response, I acknowledge the very real frustration, which stretches well beyond Holyrood, at the length of time that it is taking to meaningfully address the issue of looked-after children. All parties in the chamber have shared a common commitment to making the Scottish care system as effective as possible, and yet for all the goodwill and endeavour we seem to find ourselves back at first principles time and again. We have been very good at the diagnostic process, but much less good at finding a cure.
For instance, when the Scottish Children’s Reporter Administration published its 2011 report there was real hope that progress would follow very soon after. However, two-and-a-half years on, we are still very much stuck with the same problems. Indeed, the minister indicated in her response to the committee’s report that the Scottish Government is aware of that situation and intends to review the care and permanence plan, with a revised strategy due early in the new year, which is good to hear. We all recognise the huge sensitivities that are involved in the issue, but we need to ensure that changes are well-balanced and properly implemented. Likewise, I think that we all feel a little guilty that the pace of reform has been too slow.
During our deliberations we have all been considering why we have made so little progress, given the extent of the good will that I mentioned. There has been considerable cross-party support, and the issue has been placed further up the political agenda, for which I give the Scottish Government credit.
Have we been missing some key points, or failing to listen to the right people? Perhaps the most uncomfortable question of all is whether we are relatively powerless when it comes to dealing with some situations. There might be a little bit of that—certainly that is what we were bluntly told by two of the witness panels—but the lack of progress is also due to the weaknesses inherent in some of the data that has been essential in uncovering the problems in the decision-making process. It has also resulted from poor transparency, although that was not intentional.
That said, there is no weakness or lack of transparency when it comes to the blunt statistics that define the problem. Some of them are truly shocking. Although 56 per cent of school leavers overall gain five or more qualifications, only 4.7 per cent of children who are looked after away from home and 0.5 per cent of children who are looked after at home can expect the same degree of attainment. That is not a small disparity but a gaping chasm that reflects very poorly on us all.
Moreover, while 87.5 per cent of school leavers are engaged in work, education or training, only half of those who are looked after at home are doing the same. We are really not doing them any justice whatsoever by not enabling them to acquire the relevant skills to participate in a modern workforce, and that has lifelong implications.
During our most recent inquiry we heard troubling evidence from the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children that, in Glasgow, two thirds of children who have left care to return home end up back in the system within a year. Oscillating between pillar and post, those youngsters are at serious risk of being left behind completely.
We have been good at the diagnosis, but what is the cure? There is no doubt that much of it will have to focus on the decision-making process, because it is clear that, as many of the witnesses told us, too many barriers remain in the way of good decision making. Those barriers mean that too many children are being left in unsuitable home environments. Decision making is inconsistent and variable across the country; the system does not use resources sufficiently well; and some groups find it far too difficult to have the courage of their convictions and remove a child—I can well understand why.
In response, perhaps the key recommendation is on early permanence: the idea that, by intervening earlier, children are removed from an unstable home environment and given the foundation that they need to grow and prosper. A consensus is emerging that, together, early intervention and early permanence can deliver much better outcomes for children, families and communities. The whole package, if I can call it that, is important.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-08480, in the name of Stewart Maxwell, on decision making on whether to take children into care.I call St...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Today’s debate comes soon after the stage 1 debate on the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill. That discussion demonstrated strong cross-party support ...
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell)
SNP
I welcome this afternoon’s debate, which the Education and Culture Committee has brought to the chamber following its recent inquiry. I congratulate the comm...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
One of the ways to help young children in particular is childcare. Today, we have learned that the Scottish Government will receive £300 million in consequen...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
We have made clear within our bill our commitment to supporting children in their earliest years and we have set out our aspiration with the 600 hours of chi...
Neil Findlay
Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Aileen Campbell
SNP
Neil Findlay needs to consider his tone during this debate, which is about trying to work constructively together on this important issue.Improvement of corp...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
As I am the newest member of the Education and Culture Committee, some might say that I had the luxury of considering the final report without having to unde...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I put on record apologies from my colleague Mary Scanlon, who was due to participate in the debate. As a result of the travel situation she has had to head b...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
The member will recall the debate that we had in the committee about the fact that early intervention does not relate simply to the early years. Does she sha...
Liz Smith
Con
I absolutely share that concern—I do not think that we could doubt the evidence that was given to the committee on that point. However, we have had other car...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
We now turn to the open debate. At this stage, I can offer speeches of around six minutes, with time for interventions.15:22
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP)
SNP
The debate comes on the back of the Education and Culture Committee’s extensive inquiry into decision making on whether to take young children into care. As ...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the committee for taking on this challenging and contentious subject and for producing such a thoughtful and, I hope, helpful report.Given the broad ...
Liam McArthur
LD
One of the other things that we heard about early intervention is that it is not just about intervening with a view to taking a child away; it is about arriv...
Ken Macintosh
Lab
I entirely agree with Mr McArthur. Although I was highlighting acute need, I will return to that point and the need for quick support, early intervention and...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
As members will be aware, there is quite a bit of time in hand, which will allow for interventions and even the development of themes and ideas. I now call C...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Presiding Officer, thank you for that challenge at the start of my speech. I begin by associating myself with Stewart Maxwell’s comments about the witnesses ...
Liz Smith
Con
Clare Adamson has pointed to the frustration that I feel, and I do not deny that we have come some way towards addressing the problem. However, one of the mo...
Clare Adamson
SNP
I absolutely agree, and I have had the same experience when listening to such comments. However, we must recognise that the committee’s initial inquiry ident...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
The issue of looked-after children and young people and how we improve the life experiences and outcomes for that group has dominated the work of the Educati...
Stewart Maxwell
SNP
I have listened to Liam McArthur’s speech very carefully and I agree with what he says. Does he share my concern about the decision-making process that leads...
Liam McArthur
LD
The committee convener is absolutely right on that point. It was one of the most striking aspects of the evidence that we received. Such situations almost se...
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
SNP
The inquiry has in some respects been difficult for the Education and Culture Committee. I for one hoped that, somewhere among the wealth of information and ...
Fiona McLeod (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
I rise to speak in the debate with little expertise in this subject, but with a great interest in it. That interest stems partly from my years as the chair o...
Ken Macintosh
Lab
Will the member give way?
Fiona McLeod
SNP
I will, but I probably will not understand Mr Macintosh’s point.
Ken Macintosh
Lab
My question is simply this: why would it be helpful for my six children to have a named person?
Fiona McLeod
SNP
I am a parent, like Ken Macintosh, and we never know when we might find ourselves vulnerable as a family. I do my absolute best as a parent, but that is not ...
Ken Macintosh
Lab
Will Fiona McLeod give way on that point?