Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 04 February 2014
04 Feb 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Marriage and Civil Partnership (Scotland) Bill
The debate is no less welcome for being long awaited. At decision time, Scotland can become the 17th or the 26th country or territory around the world—it depends on how we count it; I will not go into the constitutional issues—to legislate for equal marriage rights for same-sex couples. We will pass what many regard as the last great reform that is required to achieve full equality in law for lesbian, bisexual and gay people.
It is true that equality in law will not immediately mean the end of discrimination in all its forms, but it will mean the completion of the first phase of a campaign that began in Scotland at the end of the 1960s and which achieved the decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1980, as others have said. That landmark achievement was slowly followed by equalisation of the age of consent and, ultimately, civil partnerships—an imperfect but at the time progressive move towards our vote today. The bill also makes significant progress on the inclusion of trans and intersex people. After today, campaigning for LGBT people—for example, for better sexual health and education policies and against bullying or stigma—will go on, but the crucial point is that it will do so on a similar basis to that for other groups and from the starting point of full legal equality.
While other countries around the world, including our neighbours in England and Wales, have taken the lead, those of us who have supported marriage equality in Scotland have watched and hoped that our day was coming closer. As each country has taken the step, the pressure for change has increased.
In each nation, the story of the fight for equality has been different. Each land has its own progressive coalitions, which have been built up over time and which are unique to the relationships and experiences of its people. However, the discrimination and oppression that too many gay and lesbian people have faced have been all too similar. It is said that the world is becoming a smaller place but, for lesbian and gay travellers throughout the generations, the most far-flung destinations must have seemed familiar, because the reality of discrimination has been a constant and near universal fear, wherever is called home. Therefore, I am proud that Scotland can today join the places where difference is neither to be feared nor tolerated but is, rather, accepted.
When I spoke in support of the bill at stage 1, I said that I wanted to do more than just win an argument for tolerance. Therefore, I also mean something more when I use the word “accepted”. The prize is not that we no longer care who gets married to whom, but that we recognise individual human relationships. The commitment to love another person and to spend our days with and for them can be a very private matter, but it can also be a proudly public one, if that is wanted. To my mind, that is the right that the bill creates, and it is one that, distinct from civil partnerships, should be available in the same terms to all couples, regardless of their sexuality and whether they profess a faith. That is the right that other countries have created, and we should join them. We should do so not just for our own people in Scotland in order that the state is truly the enemy of discrimination among its citizens rather than just the arbitrator, but because history has already taught us that we are on her right side.
In the coming weeks, the eyes of the world will be on Sochi and the winter Olympics there. We will be reminded that the world is not so small and that the attitudes that we rightly condemn in Russia are far more the norm there and elsewhere than what we might boastfully feel are our own enlightened views.
Each Parliament that has already made the change has done so in its own fashion. In some, there have been tears, hugs and the singing of national or protest songs. Jackson Carlaw took us somewhat towards that, but not the whole way, thankfully. Our chance at history comes at just after 6 o’clock, but it must be living history for much longer afterwards. We need a Scotland in which we renew our determination to eliminate homophobia and to celebrate, not just tolerate, diversity. We need determination that our small—and, I predict, positive—example will help to ensure that we are not for long the latest legalisers of equal marriage but rather are among the early adopters of change that has already taken far too long. It should be remembered that, for many people in the world, we will be just a far-off dream.
Those of us in the Parliament who have campaigned for equal marriage will be pleased with our work today and our work towards today, but there are many days of individual celebration ahead. Those days—not this day—will show that what has been done in the first few countries is more than a dream; it is a hope for all lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people, wherever they live and whatever their experience. That is why I feel very privileged to support the bill.
17:07
It is true that equality in law will not immediately mean the end of discrimination in all its forms, but it will mean the completion of the first phase of a campaign that began in Scotland at the end of the 1960s and which achieved the decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1980, as others have said. That landmark achievement was slowly followed by equalisation of the age of consent and, ultimately, civil partnerships—an imperfect but at the time progressive move towards our vote today. The bill also makes significant progress on the inclusion of trans and intersex people. After today, campaigning for LGBT people—for example, for better sexual health and education policies and against bullying or stigma—will go on, but the crucial point is that it will do so on a similar basis to that for other groups and from the starting point of full legal equality.
While other countries around the world, including our neighbours in England and Wales, have taken the lead, those of us who have supported marriage equality in Scotland have watched and hoped that our day was coming closer. As each country has taken the step, the pressure for change has increased.
In each nation, the story of the fight for equality has been different. Each land has its own progressive coalitions, which have been built up over time and which are unique to the relationships and experiences of its people. However, the discrimination and oppression that too many gay and lesbian people have faced have been all too similar. It is said that the world is becoming a smaller place but, for lesbian and gay travellers throughout the generations, the most far-flung destinations must have seemed familiar, because the reality of discrimination has been a constant and near universal fear, wherever is called home. Therefore, I am proud that Scotland can today join the places where difference is neither to be feared nor tolerated but is, rather, accepted.
When I spoke in support of the bill at stage 1, I said that I wanted to do more than just win an argument for tolerance. Therefore, I also mean something more when I use the word “accepted”. The prize is not that we no longer care who gets married to whom, but that we recognise individual human relationships. The commitment to love another person and to spend our days with and for them can be a very private matter, but it can also be a proudly public one, if that is wanted. To my mind, that is the right that the bill creates, and it is one that, distinct from civil partnerships, should be available in the same terms to all couples, regardless of their sexuality and whether they profess a faith. That is the right that other countries have created, and we should join them. We should do so not just for our own people in Scotland in order that the state is truly the enemy of discrimination among its citizens rather than just the arbitrator, but because history has already taught us that we are on her right side.
In the coming weeks, the eyes of the world will be on Sochi and the winter Olympics there. We will be reminded that the world is not so small and that the attitudes that we rightly condemn in Russia are far more the norm there and elsewhere than what we might boastfully feel are our own enlightened views.
Each Parliament that has already made the change has done so in its own fashion. In some, there have been tears, hugs and the singing of national or protest songs. Jackson Carlaw took us somewhat towards that, but not the whole way, thankfully. Our chance at history comes at just after 6 o’clock, but it must be living history for much longer afterwards. We need a Scotland in which we renew our determination to eliminate homophobia and to celebrate, not just tolerate, diversity. We need determination that our small—and, I predict, positive—example will help to ensure that we are not for long the latest legalisers of equal marriage but rather are among the early adopters of change that has already taken far too long. It should be remembered that, for many people in the world, we will be just a far-off dream.
Those of us in the Parliament who have campaigned for equal marriage will be pleased with our work today and our work towards today, but there are many days of individual celebration ahead. Those days—not this day—will show that what has been done in the first few countries is more than a dream; it is a hope for all lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people, wherever they live and whatever their experience. That is why I feel very privileged to support the bill.
17:07
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
Before we start, I say to Parliament that, as a consequence of the earlier decision to extend the debate on amendments by 30 minutes, decision time will also...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing (Alex Neil)
SNP
I am pleased to open the stage 3 debate on the Marriage and Civil Partnership (Scotland) Bill.I thank the members of the Equal Opportunities Committee; its c...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Cabinet secretary, you just destroyed all my calculations and I will have to start all over again.16:19
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
Like the cabinet secretary, I am pleased to participate in the stage 3 debate on the Marriage and Civil Partnership (Scotland) Bill.I commend the members and...
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
When this parliamentary year started and we came back from the summer recess in full anticipation of passing momentous legislation on same-sex marriage, my p...
Jackson Carlaw
Con
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The Presiding Officer
NPA
We now move to the open debate. We are heavily subscribed, notwithstanding the cabinet secretary’s efforts. I advise members that the first few speakers can ...
Marco Biagi (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
SNP
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Margaret McCulloch (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I support same-sex marriage as a matter of principle. Not long after I was elected to the Parliament, I was proud to pledge my support to the equal marriage ...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
Members will not be surprised to discover—if they do not know already—that I will vote with the minority at decision time tonight. However, I have no intenti...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
Will the member accept that it should be the quality rather than the quantity that matters when it comes to amendments?
Alex Johnstone
Con
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The Presiding Officer
NPA
The next speeches will be of five minutes.16:51
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
SNP
I start by responding to the point that Alex Johnstone just made. I would have thought that, if anything, the bill would strengthen marriage because it makes...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Tonight, I will be out of step with the majority of the Parliament, and I regret that. However, I am grateful for the opportunity to speak at what is undoubt...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
Will the member give way?
Richard Lyle
SNP
No, I will not. I have only five minutes.There are adoptive parents out there who are frightened that their opposition to same-sex marriage will be misunders...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
You need to bring your remarks to a close.
Richard Lyle
SNP
That happened before the law is changed.I know that I will not win tonight, but I will vote in line with my conscience, in the way that I have always stood u...
Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
The debate is no less welcome for being long awaited. At decision time, Scotland can become the 17th or the 26th country or territory around the world—it dep...
Linda Fabiani (East Kilbride) (SNP)
SNP
It is an absolute delight to be in the chamber today and to pass the bill very soon, I hope.I thank not only all those who have worked hard to bring to fruit...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
It will have to be brief, Ms Fabiani.
Linda Fabiani
SNP
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Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD)
LD
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John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
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Jim Hume
LD
I do not like to say that the member is scaremongering, but does he have any evidence at all of religious organisations being squeezed out?
John Mason
SNP
We have gone over some of this already, but it appears that, for example, somebody with traditional committed Christian or Muslim beliefs cannot be a registr...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
I thank the various groups that provided briefings for the debate. One line in the Equality Network briefing said that it would make Scotland fair and more e...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
You need to make it brief.
John Finnie
Ind
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