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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 04 February 2014

04 Feb 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Marriage and Civil Partnership (Scotland) Bill
Biagi, Marco SNP Edinburgh Central Watch on SPTV
Presiding Officer,

“I am a migrant with a German passport who was born in a former Soviet country. I want to stay because I learned that Scotland is a place where race and origin matters less than where I came from. This is the most wonderful place I want to live in. This is the society I want to contribute to. Please extend this liberty to other people who face discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation.”

Valeri, from Fountainbridge.

“As a member of the Quaker community I find it unacceptable that we are unable to have our registrars conduct same-sex marriages or civil partnerships within our meeting houses.”

Anthony, from the old town.

“I have been with my wife for eight years and we became civil partners five years ago. I usually use the terms ‘wife’ and ‘marriage’ when describing my relationship as to me they describe perfectly the nature of our relationship, however, I am painfully aware that in the eyes of Scottish and UK law those terms are not applicable and we are left with the term civil partners, a term that makes us sound as if we are in business together as opposed to a loving monogamous relationship.”

Angela, from Haymarket.

“I remember as a little girl asking my mother why two ladies couldn’t marry each other and her struggling to answer. As I grew up I began to understand it was not for any logical reason but just that some of our rules are unfair but we don’t like to change things that have always been that way.”

Annie, from Dalry.

“When I came out as gay in my later teens clause 28 was still in law. Homosexuality was never mentioned at school, at least not in a positive context, making growing up gay isolating and often painful. But I do think about the young people growing up gay today and what a difference it would make to their self-esteem and confidence to know that they are equal in the face of the law and could get married, perhaps just as their parents did or their heterosexual friends may do. Without equality in the face of the law how can these kids grow up feeling equal?”

David, from the new town.

“My other role model for a successful loving relationship is that of my best friend’s parents. His father had a sex change about 30 years ago, and my friend grew up knowing her as his aunt. They are still married, and have been for almost as long as my own parents. I count them as close friends today, but growing up they were my second set of parents.

Because of the current unequal laws on marriage she’s never been formally recognised as a woman. They couldn’t face the divorce which would be required under the current laws. Forced to choose between state recognition of gender, or their marriage, they chose the latter. She has lived for 30 years with a physical identity at odds with her legal one.”

Patrick, from Fountainbridge.

“I ‘came out’ at the age of 15, just over ten years ago now, to a fairly rough school in Edinburgh. I was surprised to find that I was met with relatively little negativity from my peers, and nothing but support from my teachers. My mother took the revelation rather badly. She had an image of gay people, one that she presumed meant I would be bullied all of my life; that I’d never have a ‘normal’ loving partner to grow old with; that I’d never have children. She was convinced it was her fault—that she’d consigned me to a fate of certain pain. Yes, bullying will inevitably continue. But let’s not fan that fire by keeping equal people on different sides of a barrier. So please, let’s not look on this as a matter of ‘just’ words and definitions. Words and definitions go a long way to moulding attitudes and challenging prejudices.”

Adam, from Gorgie.

In November 2013, at stage 1 of the bill, I told my own story. On this historic day, I wanted to throw open the doors of this chamber to let in the voices of just some of the 429 constituents who have been moved to ask me to vote yes today. I never needed persuading.

I hear one last voice today:

“We give you our deepest dearest wish to govern well, don’t say we have no mandate to be so bold.

We give you this great building, don’t let your work and hope be other than great”.

That was Edwin Morgan. Wherever he is, today he is smiling.

16:39

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
Before we start, I say to Parliament that, as a consequence of the earlier decision to extend the debate on amendments by 30 minutes, decision time will also...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing (Alex Neil) SNP
I am pleased to open the stage 3 debate on the Marriage and Civil Partnership (Scotland) Bill.I thank the members of the Equal Opportunities Committee; its c...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Cabinet secretary, you just destroyed all my calculations and I will have to start all over again.16:19
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Like the cabinet secretary, I am pleased to participate in the stage 3 debate on the Marriage and Civil Partnership (Scotland) Bill.I commend the members and...
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con) Con
When this parliamentary year started and we came back from the summer recess in full anticipation of passing momentous legislation on same-sex marriage, my p...
Jackson Carlaw Con
—but in his own time.On re-reading that Official Report I saw that there were also eloquent speeches from Nigel Don and John Mason, who put the alternative p...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We now move to the open debate. We are heavily subscribed, notwithstanding the cabinet secretary’s efforts. I advise members that the first few speakers can ...
Marco Biagi (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) SNP
Presiding Officer,“I am a migrant with a German passport who was born in a former Soviet country. I want to stay because I learned that Scotland is a place w...
Margaret McCulloch (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I support same-sex marriage as a matter of principle. Not long after I was elected to the Parliament, I was proud to pledge my support to the equal marriage ...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Members will not be surprised to discover—if they do not know already—that I will vote with the minority at decision time tonight. However, I have no intenti...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind
Will the member accept that it should be the quality rather than the quantity that matters when it comes to amendments?
Alex Johnstone Con
Indeed. That is very much the case, as the way in which the evidence has been treated throughout the process indicates.As I said, I am disappointed that we w...
The Presiding Officer NPA
The next speeches will be of five minutes.16:51
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) SNP
I start by responding to the point that Alex Johnstone just made. I would have thought that, if anything, the bill would strengthen marriage because it makes...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Tonight, I will be out of step with the majority of the Parliament, and I regret that. However, I am grateful for the opportunity to speak at what is undoubt...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
Will the member give way?
Richard Lyle SNP
No, I will not. I have only five minutes.There are adoptive parents out there who are frightened that their opposition to same-sex marriage will be misunders...
The Presiding Officer NPA
You need to bring your remarks to a close.
Richard Lyle SNP
That happened before the law is changed.I know that I will not win tonight, but I will vote in line with my conscience, in the way that I have always stood u...
Drew Smith (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
The debate is no less welcome for being long awaited. At decision time, Scotland can become the 17th or the 26th country or territory around the world—it dep...
Linda Fabiani (East Kilbride) (SNP) SNP
It is an absolute delight to be in the chamber today and to pass the bill very soon, I hope.I thank not only all those who have worked hard to bring to fruit...
The Presiding Officer NPA
It will have to be brief, Ms Fabiani.
Linda Fabiani SNP
Absolutely. The Equality Network is saying that there is still a lot more work to do to tackle prejudice and to ensure that LGBT people receive equal treatme...
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD) LD
Fairness and equality run through the veins of every true Liberal Democrat I know. We want Scotland to be one of the fairest and most equal places in the wor...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
The process has been a long one. I thank members, the clerks and others who have helped with a professional attitude throughout. I first said something publi...
Jim Hume LD
I do not like to say that the member is scaremongering, but does he have any evidence at all of religious organisations being squeezed out?
John Mason SNP
We have gone over some of this already, but it appears that, for example, somebody with traditional committed Christian or Muslim beliefs cannot be a registr...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind
I thank the various groups that provided briefings for the debate. One line in the Equality Network briefing said that it would make Scotland fair and more e...
The Presiding Officer NPA
You need to make it brief.
John Finnie Ind
Martin Luther King Jnr said:“I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too big a burden to bear.”I ask others to facilitate the love that would allow people...