Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 22 January 2014
22 Jan 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill
This debate, which is an unusual one, was triggered by the Justice Committee’s decision not to make a recommendation on the inclusion of forced marriage within the LCM. The UK Government is absolutely committed to doing all that it can to tackle forced marriage, which the Prime Minister has described as
“little more than modern-day slavery.”
The Scottish Parliament agrees that everything possible should be done to tackle that abhorrent practice. However, that does not mean that there is only one solution to the problem.
In seeking to fall in line with the UK proposal on forced marriage, the Scottish Government has put forward two main arguments. In the first place, the Government states that there is a need to fill the gap and legislate to ensure consistency across the UK. That is not a convincing argument in relation to forced marriage, as the law here and the law south of the border have never been consistent on that. Indeed, in Scotland it was considered that, with the introduction of the Forced Marriage etc (Protection and Jurisdiction) (Scotland) Act 2011 and the balance that was struck in the approach to criminalise only when an FMPO was breached, the law here offered a better solution to tackle the abhorrent problem.
Secondly, while giving evidence to the Justice Committee, the Minister for Commonwealth Games and Sport, Shona Robison, stated that the Scottish Government was keen to conduct research on the effect of criminalisation, admitting that
“at this stage in our knowledge, we do not know what the effect of the legislation would be”.—[Official Report, Justice Committee, 10 December; c 3946.]
As John Pentland pointed out, the minister went on to promise that research would be forthcoming but that it would be done alongside adopting the UK Government legislation. However, surely the point is that, in order to gauge the effect of changing the law in Scotland, a thorough consultation requires to be carried out here, and the research that the minister promised would ideally be undertaken before a decision is made to adopt the UK approach.
Christine Grahame emphasised that the Scottish legislation has had a very limited time to bed in. That, coupled with the conflicting evidence that the committee heard on whether the current approach to forced marriage in Scotland satisfied the requirements under the Istanbul convention, would have made it not unreasonable to take some time to look at this important issue again, especially in view of Malcolm Chisholm’s comments in the debate about ratification.
Disappointingly, the Government has made it clear that it will support the LCM this evening, so the political reality is that the LCM is guaranteed to be approved. Further, in the absence of any amendment from the Justice Committee, this debate has served only to highlight the Justice Committee members’ concerns and the concerns of those working in the third and voluntary sectors who represent the victims of forced marriage. I believe that to be profoundly depressing.
17:33
“little more than modern-day slavery.”
The Scottish Parliament agrees that everything possible should be done to tackle that abhorrent practice. However, that does not mean that there is only one solution to the problem.
In seeking to fall in line with the UK proposal on forced marriage, the Scottish Government has put forward two main arguments. In the first place, the Government states that there is a need to fill the gap and legislate to ensure consistency across the UK. That is not a convincing argument in relation to forced marriage, as the law here and the law south of the border have never been consistent on that. Indeed, in Scotland it was considered that, with the introduction of the Forced Marriage etc (Protection and Jurisdiction) (Scotland) Act 2011 and the balance that was struck in the approach to criminalise only when an FMPO was breached, the law here offered a better solution to tackle the abhorrent problem.
Secondly, while giving evidence to the Justice Committee, the Minister for Commonwealth Games and Sport, Shona Robison, stated that the Scottish Government was keen to conduct research on the effect of criminalisation, admitting that
“at this stage in our knowledge, we do not know what the effect of the legislation would be”.—[Official Report, Justice Committee, 10 December; c 3946.]
As John Pentland pointed out, the minister went on to promise that research would be forthcoming but that it would be done alongside adopting the UK Government legislation. However, surely the point is that, in order to gauge the effect of changing the law in Scotland, a thorough consultation requires to be carried out here, and the research that the minister promised would ideally be undertaken before a decision is made to adopt the UK approach.
Christine Grahame emphasised that the Scottish legislation has had a very limited time to bed in. That, coupled with the conflicting evidence that the committee heard on whether the current approach to forced marriage in Scotland satisfied the requirements under the Istanbul convention, would have made it not unreasonable to take some time to look at this important issue again, especially in view of Malcolm Chisholm’s comments in the debate about ratification.
Disappointingly, the Government has made it clear that it will support the LCM this evening, so the political reality is that the LCM is guaranteed to be approved. Further, in the absence of any amendment from the Justice Committee, this debate has served only to highlight the Justice Committee members’ concerns and the concerns of those working in the third and voluntary sectors who represent the victims of forced marriage. I believe that to be profoundly depressing.
17:33
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-08797, in the name of Shona Robison, on the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill, which is Unit...
The Minister for Commonwealth Games and Sport (Shona Robison)
SNP
Forced marriage is, thankfully, not an issue that affects the majority of people in Scotland. However, it is a blight on those communities where it still hap...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
Is it not the case that the UK Government has signed but not ratified the convention, and that it becomes legally binding only when ratified? If the minister...
Shona Robison
SNP
We are clear that, in order to ratify the convention, forced marriage requires to become a criminal offence. The Istanbul convention was, in effect, a game c...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Lab
Only one part of the legislative consent memorandum is contentious and that is the proposals on forced marriage.In starting, I think that it is important to ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
Thank you for your brevity.17:15
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
The Justice Committee report on the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill legislative consent memorandum did not make a recommendation on the provis...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
We move to the open debate. If members could speak for not too long, that would be helpful.17:18
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I will try to keep my speech as short as possible.As a member of the Justice Committee, to which consideration of the LCM fell,...
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
Lab
The LCM’s proposals on forced marriage proved very contentious. The shortcomings of the process were such that the committee decided not to recommend support...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
The Justice Committee requested time for the debate, and I thank the Parliamentary Bureau for allowing us to have it. All members of the committee were conce...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
In 2005, I introduced a consultation on forced marriage and listened to the views of violence against women organisations, such as Scottish Women’s Aid, Hema...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
We move to the closing speeches. I call Margaret Mitchell—four minutes, please.17:30
Margaret Mitchell
Con
This debate, which is an unusual one, was triggered by the Justice Committee’s decision not to make a recommendation on the inclusion of forced marriage with...
Elaine Murray
Lab
A number of important points have been brought out in this very brief debate. Sandra White made the point about the need to treat forced marriage as we do ot...
Shona Robison
SNP
I thank everyone for their contributions to the debate. Although we might not all agree on the details, I have a strong feeling of the commitment that member...
Margaret Mitchell
Con
The point is that there is time, especially given the information that Malcolm Chisholm supplied, to look again and see whether a Scottish solution can be fo...
Shona Robison
SNP
I find that comment slightly ironic, given the UK Government’s clear position. As for Malcolm Chisholm’s point about ratification, the UK cannot ratify the c...
Malcolm Chisholm
Lab
There is disagreement on the legal advice, because that is not the legal advice that Scottish Women’s Aid has received. However, if the minister takes that v...
Shona Robison
SNP
We are looking at forced marriage today. We are clear that, to ratify the convention, we require to criminalise forced marriage. The other articles are anoth...