Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 22 January 2014
22 Jan 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill
The LCM’s proposals on forced marriage proved very contentious. The shortcomings of the process were such that the committee decided not to recommend support for that part of the LCM. Shakti, Hemat Gryffe and Scottish Women’s Aid expressed doubts about whether criminalisation would have any significant impact on either awareness or the strength of the message that forced marriage was not acceptable. They also questioned whether there was any need for such a legislative change on the ground that it could be counterproductive to create a criminal offence that deters reporting in a way that the current civil provision for forced marriage protection orders does not. Victims could be put off seeking protection orders and annulments because of their reluctance to see their families criminalised. Indeed, that was the conclusion that was reached when the matter was considered previously. However, despite such reservations, a strong case was made to support the LCM on the grounds of international obligations and consistency of approach with the rest of the UK.
On consistency, I have to say that opinion on sentencing was divided. Originally, a maximum sentence of two years was specified, which is in line with sentences for similar offences under Scots law. However, in December, the minister revised that to seven years, to match sentencing in England and Wales.
One problem that we had was the lack of evidence. The minister and Scottish Government officials acknowledged the clear need for more research and said that they would undertake research on the effectiveness of criminalisation. Unfortunately, the fact that that will be done retrospectively leaves them open to suspicions that it will be used to justify their actions. What will ministers do to guarantee the independence of such research?
The availability of both civil and criminal remedies creates other complications. Victims who have instigated civil proceedings might find that they are suspended if criminal charges are brought. The Scottish Government needs to address the interaction of civil and criminal proceedings and to ensure that the best interests of victims are central to such considerations.
Such shortcomings highlight the folly of bringing forward legislation in this area without proper consultation. It would have been better for the Scottish Government to instigate research and consultation earlier, instead of being dragged along on the shirt tails of UK legislation, and to develop and introduce properly researched Scottish legislation after full consultation.
However, that did not happen and now the LCM, despite its lack of credibility, seems to be the only option on offer if we are to meet our international obligations. Given the importance of those obligations, I will support the motion, but for the reasons that I have outlined I will do so with reluctance.
17:24
On consistency, I have to say that opinion on sentencing was divided. Originally, a maximum sentence of two years was specified, which is in line with sentences for similar offences under Scots law. However, in December, the minister revised that to seven years, to match sentencing in England and Wales.
One problem that we had was the lack of evidence. The minister and Scottish Government officials acknowledged the clear need for more research and said that they would undertake research on the effectiveness of criminalisation. Unfortunately, the fact that that will be done retrospectively leaves them open to suspicions that it will be used to justify their actions. What will ministers do to guarantee the independence of such research?
The availability of both civil and criminal remedies creates other complications. Victims who have instigated civil proceedings might find that they are suspended if criminal charges are brought. The Scottish Government needs to address the interaction of civil and criminal proceedings and to ensure that the best interests of victims are central to such considerations.
Such shortcomings highlight the folly of bringing forward legislation in this area without proper consultation. It would have been better for the Scottish Government to instigate research and consultation earlier, instead of being dragged along on the shirt tails of UK legislation, and to develop and introduce properly researched Scottish legislation after full consultation.
However, that did not happen and now the LCM, despite its lack of credibility, seems to be the only option on offer if we are to meet our international obligations. Given the importance of those obligations, I will support the motion, but for the reasons that I have outlined I will do so with reluctance.
17:24
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-08797, in the name of Shona Robison, on the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill, which is Unit...
The Minister for Commonwealth Games and Sport (Shona Robison)
SNP
Forced marriage is, thankfully, not an issue that affects the majority of people in Scotland. However, it is a blight on those communities where it still hap...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
Is it not the case that the UK Government has signed but not ratified the convention, and that it becomes legally binding only when ratified? If the minister...
Shona Robison
SNP
We are clear that, in order to ratify the convention, forced marriage requires to become a criminal offence. The Istanbul convention was, in effect, a game c...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Lab
Only one part of the legislative consent memorandum is contentious and that is the proposals on forced marriage.In starting, I think that it is important to ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
Thank you for your brevity.17:15
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
The Justice Committee report on the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill legislative consent memorandum did not make a recommendation on the provis...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
We move to the open debate. If members could speak for not too long, that would be helpful.17:18
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I will try to keep my speech as short as possible.As a member of the Justice Committee, to which consideration of the LCM fell,...
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
Lab
The LCM’s proposals on forced marriage proved very contentious. The shortcomings of the process were such that the committee decided not to recommend support...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
The Justice Committee requested time for the debate, and I thank the Parliamentary Bureau for allowing us to have it. All members of the committee were conce...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
In 2005, I introduced a consultation on forced marriage and listened to the views of violence against women organisations, such as Scottish Women’s Aid, Hema...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
We move to the closing speeches. I call Margaret Mitchell—four minutes, please.17:30
Margaret Mitchell
Con
This debate, which is an unusual one, was triggered by the Justice Committee’s decision not to make a recommendation on the inclusion of forced marriage with...
Elaine Murray
Lab
A number of important points have been brought out in this very brief debate. Sandra White made the point about the need to treat forced marriage as we do ot...
Shona Robison
SNP
I thank everyone for their contributions to the debate. Although we might not all agree on the details, I have a strong feeling of the commitment that member...
Margaret Mitchell
Con
The point is that there is time, especially given the information that Malcolm Chisholm supplied, to look again and see whether a Scottish solution can be fo...
Shona Robison
SNP
I find that comment slightly ironic, given the UK Government’s clear position. As for Malcolm Chisholm’s point about ratification, the UK cannot ratify the c...
Malcolm Chisholm
Lab
There is disagreement on the legal advice, because that is not the legal advice that Scottish Women’s Aid has received. However, if the minister takes that v...
Shona Robison
SNP
We are looking at forced marriage today. We are clear that, to ratify the convention, we require to criminalise forced marriage. The other articles are anoth...