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Committee

Justice Committee 19 November 2013

19 Nov 2013 · S4 · Justice Committee
Item of business
Victims and Witnesses (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Amendments 33 and 35 to 37 are technical drafting amendments relating to the terminology that is used in reference to operation of the restitution fund. They have been lodged in order to clarify that the Scottish ministers have the power to administer the fund, which they may delegate, and that they may make provision by order for the fund’s administration.The operation of the restitution fund—which will receive money that is raised from restitution orders that are imposed for police assault, and will disburse them to the designated recipients—will necessarily involve administrative expenses. Amendment 34 will ensure that those expenses may be defrayed from the fund by adding the Scottish ministers and those administering the fund to the persons to whom payments may be made out of the fund.Amendments 38 and 43, 45 and 46 are mostly technical amendments to the subordinate legislation-making powers relating to the victims surcharge; they will slightly alter the terminology. As with my amendments on the restitution fund, the amendments clarify that the Scottish ministers have the power to administer the fund, which they may delegate, and that they may make provision for the fund’s administration.Amendment 46 will also remove the reference in new section 253G(6) of the Criminal Procedures (Scotland) Act 1995 to the regulation-making power being used and, in particular, to make provisions specifying persons or classes of person to whom, or in respect of whom, payments may be made out of the fund. I consider that the restrictions in the bill relating to the persons to whom payments can be made are sufficient and that such provisions are therefore highly unlikely to be made.As with the restitution fund, the operator of the victim surcharge fund will inevitably incur administrative costs. It would be unreasonable to expect the operator to bear the cost of administering the fund himself. Amendment 42 therefore provides that operational expenses may be taken from the fund. Where administration of the fund is delegated to a third party—which is our intention—the Scottish ministers must consent to such expenses being taken from the fund.Amendments 44 and 47 are minor technical amendments that will allow subordinate legislation under proposed new sections 253F and 253G of the 1995 act to be made in a single instrument.Amendment 90, in the name of Graeme Pearson, seeks to prevent the victim surcharge fund from being used to supplement or replace other payments that are made out of the Scottish consolidated fund. As I have stated previously, the victim surcharge fund is being established for the specific purpose of providing immediate and practical assistance to victims of crime; it is not intended to be used to replace the current or future Government funding of victim support services. Indeed, it is our intention to delegate administration of the fund to Victim Support Scotland and for it to distribute funds as appropriate, with the Scottish Government having no role in the day-to-day operation of the fund. In those circumstances, payments out of the fund would be made not by the Scottish ministers but by the operator to whom administration of the fund has been delegated. Amendment 90 would be of no effect in those circumstances, because the operator will have no say on how or to whom payments are made out of the Scottish consolidated fund.In addition, the Scottish ministers currently support a number of victims organisations through payments from the consolidated fund. Amendment 90 could have the effect of preventing payments being made to those organisations from the victim surcharge fund, because they could be seen as supplementary payments to those that were being made from the consolidated fund. There is also a risk that the inclusion of such a provision in the bill would create an implication that the absence of such a provision elsewhere in the bill or other statutes would mean that funds such as the victim surcharge fund could be used to relieve the pressure on the Scottish consolidated fund. I therefore consider amendment 90 to be completely unnecessary, and I ask Graeme Pearson not to move it.I move amendment 33.

In the same item of business

The Convener (Christine Grahame) SNP
Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 32nd meeting of an extremely hard-working Justice Committee, which will sit again tomorrow. We never get away from on...
The Convener SNP
We move straight to the amendments. I hope that John Finnie is sitting comfortably, because he is up first. Amendment 84, in the name of John Finnie, is in a...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) Ind
Amendment 84 aims to designate as standard special measures in respect of intermediaries. There is significant evidence of the benefits of supporting child v...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill) SNP
I thank John Finnie for raising the issue, and I am keen to explore further the potential benefits of using intermediaries to assist vulnerable witnesses who...
John Finnie Ind
Thank you, cabinet secretary—I am grateful for those words. That being the case, I will not press my amendment.Amendment 84, by agreement, withdrawn. Section...
The Convener SNP
Amendment 29, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 86, 30, 68, 31 and 32. If amendment 68 is agreed to, amendment 31 will be pre-...
Kenny MacAskill SNP
I speak first to amendment 32, which is in my name. Victims of crime should clearly have the opportunity to communicate to the court the physical, emotional ...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
When we considered amendments to the bill at our previous meeting, I rehearsed for the committee the evidence that we had received from victims and the gener...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s amendments 30 and 31, which lower the age at which a child may automatically make a victim statement to the age of 12. That...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
I seek clarification on amendment 68 with regard to a child who is under 12. I concur with what everyone has said: we are considering victims. You said that ...
Elaine Murray Lab
Amendment 68 just refers to a health professional; it does not specify which particular type of health professional. It could be a general practitioner who k...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) SNP
I will deal with Graeme Pearson’s amendment 86 first. It seems to me that there is provision in the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 2003 for steps to be take...
Elaine Murray Lab
The issue is that in other legislation children under the age of 12 who have sufficient age and maturity are enabled to make their wishes known about what ha...
The Convener SNP
I have a concern that young children might feel that they ought to say something when they do not want to. The existence of such a provision might make them ...
Kenny MacAskill SNP
I will deal first with Graeme Pearson’s amendment 86. The powers that are provided are generic, not specific. They are meant to be inclusive, not exclusive. ...
The Convener SNP
Amendment 69, in the name of Elaine Murray, is in a group on its own.
Elaine Murray Lab
Amendment 69 would require the court to ascertain the views of the victim prior to making a compensation order and would prohibit the making of such an order...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Amendment 69 seems to be sensible. I am minded to support it, after I have heard what the cabinet secretary has to say.
Roderick Campbell SNP
We should be slightly careful about going too far. It is right that courts ought to “consider” things, but we should not be perceived to be tying the hands o...
Graeme Pearson Lab
Every time we try to move forward in any way that could be described as radical, we find a million reasons why we need to be careful, or whatever. At the end...
Kenny MacAskill SNP
At the moment, courts may consider imposing a compensation order on an offender, but are under no obligation to do so. The intention behind section 20 of the...
Elaine Murray Lab
I appreciate that the cabinet secretary and Roderick Campbell have far more experience in matters of the law than I do, but I am slightly confused by their i...
The Convener SNP
Elaine Murray seeks to withdraw amendment 69. Are members content with that?Amendment 69, by agreement, withdrawn.Section 20 agreed to. Section 21—Restitutio...
The Convener SNP
We turn to restitution orders. Amendment 70, in the name of Alison McInnes, is grouped with amendments 71 to 73.
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
Amendments 70 to 73 would extend restitution orders and the associated fund to all emergency workers. That would mean that an assault on any emergency worker...
Roderick Campbell SNP
I absolutely agree with Alison McInnes in theory. It seems to me that there ought not to be a distinction in theory between police officers and other emergen...
Margaret Mitchell Con
I am sympathetic to the intention behind the amendments, but I will listen with interest to what the cabinet secretary says about the practical difficulties ...
Kenny MacAskill SNP
Roderick Campbell has already said a lot of what I would have said. As I have said before, we are sympathetic to the idea of extending restitution orders to ...
Alison McInnes LD
I have listened to the minister’s response. It does not seem to me to be beyond the wit of man to find out whether there are union or benevolent funds. That ...
The Convener SNP
You have moved only one amendment; you are pressing amendment 70. We will deal with the others as we reach them.The question is, that amendment 70 be agreed ...