Committee
Education and Culture Committee 14 January 2014
14 Jan 2014 · S4 · Education and Culture Committee
Item of business
Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
This is a sizeable area of the bill and I will do my best to keep my comments as succinct as possible. However, there is an awful lot to get through and I want to give the committee as much information as I possibly can.The committee will be aware that, on 6 January, I announced the Scottish Government’s commitment to a number of measures to support care leavers over the next 10 to 12 years. All my amendments in the group form part of that wider package. As a result of the amendments, starting in 2015, each new cohort of 16-year-olds in foster, kinship or residential care will have a right to stay in care until they are 21 years old. That means that, over the coming years, just as is the case with their non-looked-after peers, those who are not ready to leave home will be entitled to remain with their carers until the age of 21. Ultimately, we will put measures in place to enable care leavers to return to care if they need that support as they make their way towards independent living.Just as important, this package of amendments provides that local authorities will be required to notify the Scottish ministers and the care inspectorate about the death of any care leaver in receipt of aftercare services. That is so that, where possible in such tragic circumstances, lessons are learned to ensure that, as far as possible, services are doing their utmost for all our young people who have been in care.My amendments seek to clarify the eligibility of those care leavers who are entitled to corporate parenting and aftercare support, and they seek order-making powers to extend those types of support to further cohorts of formerly looked-after children, through secondary legislation.During all stages of the development of the bill it has been our absolute priority to consult and to engage in some detail with young people and with all parts of the sector, so as to steer a path through the complex and emotive issues that are covered in various parts of the bill. We know that the bill is better as a result and we want that level of commitment to continue into the work of the expert group, which will be established very soon to work collaboratively to develop and deliver the next stage of measures.This significant package of amendments represents a uniquely Scottish solution to tackle some of the most pressing issues that some of our most vulnerable young people face. Not only is it a huge step forward for Scottish teenagers in care, but it is groundbreaking in policy terms. I am very proud of these amendments and I want to record my thanks to the committee for its role in bringing to the fore many of the issues tackled in the bill, not least through the inquiry that we debated last year.I would also like to acknowledge the effort and commitment shown by all the sectoral representatives, particularly Aberlour Child Care Trust, Barnardo’s Scotland and Who Cares? Scotland. I also acknowledge the Centre for Excellence for Looked After Children in Scotland, local government contacts and our looked-after young people themselves, who collectively and separately worked with us to identify the most appropriate and realistic way forward in challenging financial circumstances.I will set out specifically what my amendments seek to achieve. Amendments 308, 309 and 314 will clarify who is eligible for corporate parenting support by replacing references to being over school age or ceasing to be of school age with references to “at least the age of 16”and“on the person’s 16th birthday”.They will also add a new order-making power, subject to the affirmative procedure, for the Scottish ministers to specify descriptions of young people who were, but are no longer, looked after by a local authority. That is with the intention of extending the categories of young people who would be eligible for support.Amendment 348 will remove the reference to persons being “over school age” and will convey eligibility for assessment for aftercare support to anyone who leaves care aged 16 or above. That will ensure that those who might enter care at a later age—15, for example—and leave care at 16 will be eligible. It will align corporate parenting eligibility in section 51 with section 60, on aftercare.We also propose order-making powers for the Scottish ministers to specify additional descriptions of those who were but are no longer looked after by a local authority, who will then be eligible for aftercare support. That means that as soon as is practicable we will bring forward secondary legislation to extend the measures to additional cohorts of young people. It is appropriate to attach affirmative procedures to such orders, to give the Parliament the appropriate level of scrutiny to debate the merits and affirm any changes that are thought necessary.As I mentioned, the expert group is still to work out details of any additional cohorts of those eligible for corporate parenting and aftercare support, but I want to emphasise the Government’s commitment to widen the groups of young people who are eligible. However, we cannot support Liam McArthur’s amendment 394, as it would introduce an entitlement for aftercare support that is too broad at this point: one that realistically could not be met with the current infrastructure. The expert group will provide ministers with realistic recommendations on the most appropriate timing and categories of additional cohorts of children who should be entitled to such support.We acknowledge the need to immediately extend entitlement to stay in care to those who are 16 years old and wish to stay in their placement. Therefore, amendment 353 will insert a new section 26A into the 1995 act to specify who is eligible for continuing care. It defines continuing care, sets out the conditions under which the duty would not apply and sets out the circumstances under which the duty might cease. The effect of that will be that any child who is in care at 16 years old and then ceases to be looked after will have the right to stay in their kinship care, foster care or residential placement, subject to certain exceptions.We also propose order-making powers to allow the Scottish ministers to modify new section 26A to vary the situations in which the duty to provide continuing care either does not apply or ceases to apply. There are also order-making powers to specify the upper age limit of eligible persons and the period of time for which the local authority’s duty to provide care lasts.The last two powers will enable us to roll out the continuing care entitlement to additional cohorts of young people in a measured way over the coming years. We have suggested that that be subject to the affirmative procedure, to give the Parliament the appropriate level of scrutiny to debate the merits and make changes that are deemed to be necessary.Amendment 350 will provide for the notification of deaths of those persons to whom the local authority was providing aftercare support, under section 29 of the 1995 act, at the time of their death. As I said earlier, it is important that lessons are learned to ensure, as far as possible, that services do their utmost for all our young people who have been in care. That replicates a similar provision for the notifications of deaths of looked-after children that is contained in regulation 6 of the Looked After Children (Scotland) Regulations 2009.We will also revise existing 2007 guidance to child protection committees to include the death of a young person receiving aftercare in the suggested criteria for child protection committees to consider when deciding whether to conduct a significant case review.10:45 I hope that that gives the committee a helpful level of detail on the amendments, so that we can make commitments of the magnitude that is required, with enough flexibility to fully develop the policy. That will require extensive consultation with the care sector and care leavers about the precise parameters of the entitlements, working with local government on how best to fund the extension of that support.I turn now to Liam McArthur’s remaining amendment, amendment 395. We do not feel that it is necessary, as a procedure is already in place to allow aggrieved persons to appeal against local authority decisions under section 29 of the 1995 act. The Support and Assistance of Young People Leaving Care (Scotland) Regulations 2003 already include provisions allowing people to appeal against local authority decisions. It is likely that those regulations will have to be amended in consequence of section 60 of the bill, which will provide an opportunity to ensure that all measures are clarified.A review of the complaints procedures, as provided for by section 5B of the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968, is currently under way. Regulation 16(2) of the 2003 regulations provides that:“All complaints, representations or appeals not falling within paragraph (1) shall be dealt with in accordance with the procedure established under section 5B of the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968”.As such, although some stakeholders might wish us to go further, we feel that the existing appeals procedures and our post-bill review of the current regulations are sufficient to address the needs of care leavers in this regard.In summary, I ask members to support the amendments in my name. I reiterate my thanks to the committee for the work that it did in helping us to set out the amendments, which have been described as making Scotland world leading.I move amendment 308.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Stewart Maxwell)
SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the second meeting in 2014 of the Education and Culture Committee. I remind everyone present to switch off their mobile phones a...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 337, in the name of Liam McArthur, is in a group on its own.
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
Shortly, we will come to the substance of what we are looking to the bill to achieve on early learning and childcare but, whatever we decide in that context,...
The Convener
SNP
As no other members wish to speak, I call the minister.
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell)
SNP
Amendment 337 seeks to amend the early learning and childcare provisions to include specific reference to the aims of those provisions. It is unusual to plac...
Liam McArthur
LD
I listened to what the minister said, particularly about the practical effect of amendment 337. Nevertheless, there would be value in setting out more clearl...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 337 be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division.ForBaxter, Jayne (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)Smith, Liz (Mid S...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 4, Against 5, Abstentions 0.Amendment 337 disagreed to.Section 42 agreed to.Section 43—Duty to secure provision of early l...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 48, in the name of Liz Smith, is grouped with amendments 49 and 50.
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Thousands of children lose out on nursery provision simply because they were born in the wrong month. Children who were born between 1 September and 29 Febru...
Liam McArthur
LD
Like Liz Smith and other members, during stage 1, I raised the issue of potential discrepancies in relation to how some children would benefit from the addit...
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
SNP
My concern with a change to commencement dates is that there seems to be no funding available for it. The amendments do not indicate where the funding would ...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
As we have heard, amendments 48 to 50, through moving to a system of all children receiving two full years of funded early learning and childcare, would resu...
Liz Smith
Con
I listened carefully to what the minister said, which repeated the comment that the Scottish Government has made before—that the current policy makes the bes...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 48 be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division.ForBaxter, Jayne (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)Smith, Liz (Mid S...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 4, Against 5, Abstentions 0.Amendment 48 disagreed to.
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 84, in the name of Neil Bibby, is grouped with amendments 338, 85, 86, 339 and 340.
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to speak to my amendments 84 to 86, which would increase and guarantee the number of two-year-old children in Scotland who are eligible for earl...
Liam McArthur
LD
What a difference a week makes. I know that we were unable to deal with part 6 of the bill last week, for perfectly understandable reasons, but it leaves us ...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I will speak to amendments 84 to 86. The bill has always been a starting point for the Scottish Government’s ambitions and I am sure that, as Neil Bibby said...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
Although I support all the amendments in the group, I wish to focus on those in the name of my colleague Neil Bibby.It is disappointing that we did not have ...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I apologise to the convener, the minister and members for my slightly late arrival.I, too, wish to speak to amendments 84 to 86. First, I congratulate Liam M...
Liz Smith
Con
I fully understand and accept that not all childcare can be delivered in one context. The Conservatives have been totally consistent about that. Nonetheless,...
The Convener
SNP
I must be honest and say that, without proper analysis of where the finance would come from, it is impossible to see how any member can seriously consider su...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
We share the ambition to deliver early learning and childcare to significantly more two-year-olds who are in greater need. We know that children from more di...
Neil Bibby
Lab
I want to rebut some of the highly misleading claims of Joan McAlpine, the minister and the convener, who said that Labour voted against increased childcare ...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
Will you take an intervention?
Neil Bibby
Lab
I want to conclude, minister. Labour supports the provision of more childcare now, under devolution. As I said, the SNP could have gone much further last wee...