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Committee

Education and Culture Committee 14 January 2014

14 Jan 2014 · S4 · Education and Culture Committee
Item of business
Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Childcare for the early years is only one part of the Scottish model of childcare that we need to develop. We need to ensure that we have a model of childcare up to the age of 14 that meets the needs of children and their families. That is why back in May 2013 Labour proposed a childcare commission to examine all the issues. It is very unfortunate that the proposal was rejected by the Scottish Government. It was particularly unfortunate because the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill says nothing about out-of-school childcare and childcare at holiday times. The white paper does not mention those either, which is a major oversight.Improving access, availability and the affordability of out-of-school care is crucial in developing a Scottish model of childcare that supports children and helps parents. My Labour colleagues and I have consistently raised those issues in committee and chamber debates on the bill, and when childcare has been debated more generally.Amendment 327, which is supported by Barnardo’s, Children 1st and others, seeks to ensure that increasing childcare for the early years is not done to the detriment of out-of-school and holiday care. Councils are suffering significantly from budget cuts. Although they want to work with the Scottish Government to improve childcare, they need the funds to do that, and there is concern that out-of-school care and holiday care are vulnerable to budget pressures. Amendment 327 would ensure protection of existing services.Children 1st, in its briefing for this meeting, said that parents and carers who contact parentline Scotland tell it that the need to improve availability of age-appropriate and affordable childcare for older children is a major issue. Childcare is important throughout childhood and is not limited to the early years.Amendment 302 in the name of Clare Adamson is welcome in that it at least mentions out-of-school care. However, it would do little that is new. I suspect that local authorities already consult and plan alongside parents. The same is the case for amendment 301, although I welcome the intention to ensure that consultation happens. However, why does that have to be done every two years as opposed to every three, four or five years?The general point is that the Scottish Government clearly does not view out-of-school care as a priority—it is not mentioned in the bill or the Government’s white paper. However, the fact that the SNP Administration does not place any emphasis on it does not mean that we cannot pass an amendment that would allow future Governments that value out-of-school care the opportunity to increase its availability.Amendment 346 would ensure that the Scottish Government, working with local authorities and their community planning partners, provides out-of-school care. Save the Children, Children in Scotland, the Scottish Out of School Care Network, Parenting Across Scotland, the Scottish Childminding Association and One Parent Families Scotland point out that non-statutory services are vulnerable to cuts. Because of that—coupled with the changes that are planned by the UK coalition Government that will result in withdrawal of financial support for parents of over-5s and successor arrangements being put in place only incrementally over several years—they fear that parents and carers here could face severe pressures. Therefore, there is an increasing case for putting the provision of childcare for school-age children on a statutory footing.Those organisations believe that priority should be given to school-age children in low-income households with working parents. Others may disagree with that focus, but the key is to establish out-of-school care as a key part of a Scottish model of childcare. Scottish children are at a disadvantage compared with English children in that regard. There is an existing duty on local authorities in England—the Childcare Act 2006 was passed by the previous UK Labour Government—to secure for working parents sufficient childcare that covers childcare for children up to 14 years.Amendment 344 would introduce a right to childcare for young children and school-age children under 15. It is widely recognised that there is a lack of suitable childcare in Scotland for children and their families. As I have said, the bill says little about childcare for children under 3 and nothing about school-age children. There is considerable support for the measure. The Parliament's Equal Opportunities Committee recommended that childcare for school-age children should be available on a statutory basis for children up to the age of 15. There is also public support for that—Save the Children has collected more than 1,000 signatures for its petition to the Scottish Government.As is widely recognised, and as I very much recognise, there are cost implications for delivering wider childcare improvements in the long term. I do not expect that to happen overnight; I do not think that any member would. I hope that we can work together across the parties to amend the bill so that we can act when resources become available and can be given to local authorities so that they can provide more childcare for primary-school age children. My fear is that the bill, as it stands, is unambitious and that we will have missed an opportunity without substantial amendments in this area.I move amendment 327.

In the same item of business

The Convener (Stewart Maxwell) SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the second meeting in 2014 of the Education and Culture Committee. I remind everyone present to switch off their mobile phones a...
The Convener SNP
Amendment 337, in the name of Liam McArthur, is in a group on its own.
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Shortly, we will come to the substance of what we are looking to the bill to achieve on early learning and childcare but, whatever we decide in that context,...
The Convener SNP
As no other members wish to speak, I call the minister.
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell) SNP
Amendment 337 seeks to amend the early learning and childcare provisions to include specific reference to the aims of those provisions. It is unusual to plac...
Liam McArthur LD
I listened to what the minister said, particularly about the practical effect of amendment 337. Nevertheless, there would be value in setting out more clearl...
The Convener SNP
The question is, that amendment 337 be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Convener SNP
There will be a division.ForBaxter, Jayne (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)Smith, Liz (Mid S...
The Convener SNP
The result of the division is: For 4, Against 5, Abstentions 0.Amendment 337 disagreed to.Section 42 agreed to.Section 43—Duty to secure provision of early l...
The Convener SNP
Amendment 48, in the name of Liz Smith, is grouped with amendments 49 and 50.
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Thousands of children lose out on nursery provision simply because they were born in the wrong month. Children who were born between 1 September and 29 Febru...
Liam McArthur LD
Like Liz Smith and other members, during stage 1, I raised the issue of potential discrepancies in relation to how some children would benefit from the addit...
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) SNP
My concern with a change to commencement dates is that there seems to be no funding available for it. The amendments do not indicate where the funding would ...
Aileen Campbell SNP
As we have heard, amendments 48 to 50, through moving to a system of all children receiving two full years of funded early learning and childcare, would resu...
Liz Smith Con
I listened carefully to what the minister said, which repeated the comment that the Scottish Government has made before—that the current policy makes the bes...
The Convener SNP
The question is, that amendment 48 be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Convener SNP
There will be a division.ForBaxter, Jayne (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)Smith, Liz (Mid S...
The Convener SNP
The result of the division is: For 4, Against 5, Abstentions 0.Amendment 48 disagreed to.
The Convener SNP
Amendment 84, in the name of Neil Bibby, is grouped with amendments 338, 85, 86, 339 and 340.
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to speak to my amendments 84 to 86, which would increase and guarantee the number of two-year-old children in Scotland who are eligible for earl...
Liam McArthur LD
What a difference a week makes. I know that we were unable to deal with part 6 of the bill last week, for perfectly understandable reasons, but it leaves us ...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I will speak to amendments 84 to 86. The bill has always been a starting point for the Scottish Government’s ambitions and I am sure that, as Neil Bibby said...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
Although I support all the amendments in the group, I wish to focus on those in the name of my colleague Neil Bibby.It is disappointing that we did not have ...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I apologise to the convener, the minister and members for my slightly late arrival.I, too, wish to speak to amendments 84 to 86. First, I congratulate Liam M...
Liz Smith Con
I fully understand and accept that not all childcare can be delivered in one context. The Conservatives have been totally consistent about that. Nonetheless,...
The Convener SNP
I must be honest and say that, without proper analysis of where the finance would come from, it is impossible to see how any member can seriously consider su...
Aileen Campbell SNP
We share the ambition to deliver early learning and childcare to significantly more two-year-olds who are in greater need. We know that children from more di...
Neil Bibby Lab
I want to rebut some of the highly misleading claims of Joan McAlpine, the minister and the convener, who said that Labour voted against increased childcare ...
Aileen Campbell SNP
Will you take an intervention?
Neil Bibby Lab
I want to conclude, minister. Labour supports the provision of more childcare now, under devolution. As I said, the SNP could have gone much further last wee...