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Committee

Education and Culture Committee 14 January 2014

14 Jan 2014 · S4 · Education and Culture Committee
Item of business
Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
As we have heard, amendments 48 to 50, through moving to a system of all children receiving two full years of funded early learning and childcare, would result in significant numbers of children taking up their entitlement, some from the age of two and a half.Although the Government absolutely accepts the need to build on the provisions in the bill, the priority at this stage must be to build additional hours and flexibility into our high-quality universal provision—increasing the entitlement to about 16 hours a week—and to focus on our more vulnerable two-year-olds as we expand. As I said, we have demonstrated our commitment to do that through the increased coverage of more vulnerable two-year-olds that was announced last week.The amendments are unnecessary, as any further expansion or changes to commencement dates for entitlement to early learning and childcare for two or three-year-olds can be achieved through secondary legislation made under the bill.The bill makes a significant change in reconfiguring the system of early learning and childcare, and further expansion must be subject to adequate funding. All the research shows that pre-school provision is beneficial to young children, particularly those who are most disadvantaged, only when it is of high quality.On the dates on which three-year-olds take up the funded entitlement, local authorities can and do deliver provision beyond the minimum number of hours and the minimum of eligible children. A number of local authorities already start children from their third birthday, or the month after their third birthday, where they have capacity to do so. The youngest children—those born in January or February—who may get less provision when they are three, will continue to be entitled to an additional year after they are four, where parents want that, to ensure that they benefit from early learning and childcare and are ready to start school.As I said, the commencement dates for entitlement to early learning and childcare will be set through secondary legislation. The intention is to continue commencement for three-year-olds from the first term after their third birthday. Some slight variation will always remain—relating to whether children commence from their third birthday or the first term after that birthday—but I reiterate that the system makes the best use of the entitlement in relation to children’s ages and needs.There are capacity issues. Colin Beattie suggested the possibility of 30,000 additional two-year-olds and the associated costs that go with that. He raised some pertinent points that Liz Smith might address when she sums up.I reiterate that the bill represents the first step in our journey towards transforming childcare, starting with those who need it most—the most vulnerable two-year-olds. Last week, we indicated our intention to expand that provision further. Therefore, I do not support the amendments in this group.09:15

In the same item of business

The Convener (Stewart Maxwell) SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the second meeting in 2014 of the Education and Culture Committee. I remind everyone present to switch off their mobile phones a...
The Convener SNP
Amendment 337, in the name of Liam McArthur, is in a group on its own.
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Shortly, we will come to the substance of what we are looking to the bill to achieve on early learning and childcare but, whatever we decide in that context,...
The Convener SNP
As no other members wish to speak, I call the minister.
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell) SNP
Amendment 337 seeks to amend the early learning and childcare provisions to include specific reference to the aims of those provisions. It is unusual to plac...
Liam McArthur LD
I listened to what the minister said, particularly about the practical effect of amendment 337. Nevertheless, there would be value in setting out more clearl...
The Convener SNP
The question is, that amendment 337 be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Convener SNP
There will be a division.ForBaxter, Jayne (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)Smith, Liz (Mid S...
The Convener SNP
The result of the division is: For 4, Against 5, Abstentions 0.Amendment 337 disagreed to.Section 42 agreed to.Section 43—Duty to secure provision of early l...
The Convener SNP
Amendment 48, in the name of Liz Smith, is grouped with amendments 49 and 50.
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Thousands of children lose out on nursery provision simply because they were born in the wrong month. Children who were born between 1 September and 29 Febru...
Liam McArthur LD
Like Liz Smith and other members, during stage 1, I raised the issue of potential discrepancies in relation to how some children would benefit from the addit...
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) SNP
My concern with a change to commencement dates is that there seems to be no funding available for it. The amendments do not indicate where the funding would ...
Aileen Campbell SNP
As we have heard, amendments 48 to 50, through moving to a system of all children receiving two full years of funded early learning and childcare, would resu...
Liz Smith Con
I listened carefully to what the minister said, which repeated the comment that the Scottish Government has made before—that the current policy makes the bes...
The Convener SNP
The question is, that amendment 48 be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Convener SNP
There will be a division.ForBaxter, Jayne (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)Smith, Liz (Mid S...
The Convener SNP
The result of the division is: For 4, Against 5, Abstentions 0.Amendment 48 disagreed to.
The Convener SNP
Amendment 84, in the name of Neil Bibby, is grouped with amendments 338, 85, 86, 339 and 340.
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to speak to my amendments 84 to 86, which would increase and guarantee the number of two-year-old children in Scotland who are eligible for earl...
Liam McArthur LD
What a difference a week makes. I know that we were unable to deal with part 6 of the bill last week, for perfectly understandable reasons, but it leaves us ...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I will speak to amendments 84 to 86. The bill has always been a starting point for the Scottish Government’s ambitions and I am sure that, as Neil Bibby said...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
Although I support all the amendments in the group, I wish to focus on those in the name of my colleague Neil Bibby.It is disappointing that we did not have ...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I apologise to the convener, the minister and members for my slightly late arrival.I, too, wish to speak to amendments 84 to 86. First, I congratulate Liam M...
Liz Smith Con
I fully understand and accept that not all childcare can be delivered in one context. The Conservatives have been totally consistent about that. Nonetheless,...
The Convener SNP
I must be honest and say that, without proper analysis of where the finance would come from, it is impossible to see how any member can seriously consider su...
Aileen Campbell SNP
We share the ambition to deliver early learning and childcare to significantly more two-year-olds who are in greater need. We know that children from more di...
Neil Bibby Lab
I want to rebut some of the highly misleading claims of Joan McAlpine, the minister and the convener, who said that Labour voted against increased childcare ...
Aileen Campbell SNP
Will you take an intervention?
Neil Bibby Lab
I want to conclude, minister. Labour supports the provision of more childcare now, under devolution. As I said, the SNP could have gone much further last wee...