Committee
Education and Culture Committee 14 January 2014
14 Jan 2014 · S4 · Education and Culture Committee
Item of business
Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Thousands of children lose out on nursery provision simply because they were born in the wrong month. Children who were born between 1 September and 29 February receive fewer hours of nursery provision than those who were born in other months of the year, so their parents are also at a financial disadvantage.Recent comprehensive statistical evidence that Reform Scotland published showed that that anomaly, which results from the Scottish Government’s policy of funding nursery provision after a child turns three, means that nursery provision can vary by up to 317 hours or by more than £1,000 within the cost of nursery partnership provision.A child who was born between 1 March and 31 August is entitled to the full two years of nursery provision before beginning school, but a child who was born between 1 September and 31 December gets only 18 months’ provision and a child who was born between 1 January and 28 February receives just 15 months. The Scottish Conservatives believe that that situation is grossly unfair and that it would be much better if nursery provision started at a fixed point in the year for all children.The Scottish Government’s defence of the current situation is that, when a child starts nursery at the beginning of the first term following their third birthday, that makes the best use of the entitlement and takes proper account of the child’s age and educational needs, and parents can keep younger children in nursery and defer the start of school if they feel that that is best. I ask the Scottish Government to consider the following points.If we take a child who was born in late July and one who was born in late October, who both start primary school at the same time, where on earth is the logic in arguing that the child who was born in late July is entitled to six months more of nursery education? Under the current arrangements, only children who were born in January or February can defer entry to primary school and be guaranteed an extra year’s nursery provision. There is therefore further discrimination between those who were born between September and December and those who were born in January and February.If there are to be arbitrary cut-off points, that is fine, but we need to be sure that all children are treated equally and that the system does not discriminate on the basis of children’s birthdays. Only 50 per cent of children who are born in Scotland are entitled to two full years of nursery provision. Children within the September to February group whose school entry is not deferred receive 400 hours less than the 600 hours a year under the Scottish Government’s policy.Amendments 48 to 50 are designed to make the necessary changes to ensure a level playing field. I believe that the proposed changes have the support of Labour and Liberal members and of a wide cross-section of society. I hope that the minister will agree to change what is currently a highly discriminatory policy, which causes many children to lose out and many parents to face a financial penalty just because of when their children were born.I move amendment 48.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Stewart Maxwell)
SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the second meeting in 2014 of the Education and Culture Committee. I remind everyone present to switch off their mobile phones a...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 337, in the name of Liam McArthur, is in a group on its own.
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
Shortly, we will come to the substance of what we are looking to the bill to achieve on early learning and childcare but, whatever we decide in that context,...
The Convener
SNP
As no other members wish to speak, I call the minister.
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell)
SNP
Amendment 337 seeks to amend the early learning and childcare provisions to include specific reference to the aims of those provisions. It is unusual to plac...
Liam McArthur
LD
I listened to what the minister said, particularly about the practical effect of amendment 337. Nevertheless, there would be value in setting out more clearl...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 337 be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division.ForBaxter, Jayne (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)Smith, Liz (Mid S...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 4, Against 5, Abstentions 0.Amendment 337 disagreed to.Section 42 agreed to.Section 43—Duty to secure provision of early l...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 48, in the name of Liz Smith, is grouped with amendments 49 and 50.
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Thousands of children lose out on nursery provision simply because they were born in the wrong month. Children who were born between 1 September and 29 Febru...
Liam McArthur
LD
Like Liz Smith and other members, during stage 1, I raised the issue of potential discrepancies in relation to how some children would benefit from the addit...
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
SNP
My concern with a change to commencement dates is that there seems to be no funding available for it. The amendments do not indicate where the funding would ...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
As we have heard, amendments 48 to 50, through moving to a system of all children receiving two full years of funded early learning and childcare, would resu...
Liz Smith
Con
I listened carefully to what the minister said, which repeated the comment that the Scottish Government has made before—that the current policy makes the bes...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 48 be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division.ForBaxter, Jayne (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)Smith, Liz (Mid S...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 4, Against 5, Abstentions 0.Amendment 48 disagreed to.
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 84, in the name of Neil Bibby, is grouped with amendments 338, 85, 86, 339 and 340.
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to speak to my amendments 84 to 86, which would increase and guarantee the number of two-year-old children in Scotland who are eligible for earl...
Liam McArthur
LD
What a difference a week makes. I know that we were unable to deal with part 6 of the bill last week, for perfectly understandable reasons, but it leaves us ...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I will speak to amendments 84 to 86. The bill has always been a starting point for the Scottish Government’s ambitions and I am sure that, as Neil Bibby said...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
Although I support all the amendments in the group, I wish to focus on those in the name of my colleague Neil Bibby.It is disappointing that we did not have ...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I apologise to the convener, the minister and members for my slightly late arrival.I, too, wish to speak to amendments 84 to 86. First, I congratulate Liam M...
Liz Smith
Con
I fully understand and accept that not all childcare can be delivered in one context. The Conservatives have been totally consistent about that. Nonetheless,...
The Convener
SNP
I must be honest and say that, without proper analysis of where the finance would come from, it is impossible to see how any member can seriously consider su...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
We share the ambition to deliver early learning and childcare to significantly more two-year-olds who are in greater need. We know that children from more di...
Neil Bibby
Lab
I want to rebut some of the highly misleading claims of Joan McAlpine, the minister and the convener, who said that Labour voted against increased childcare ...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
Will you take an intervention?
Neil Bibby
Lab
I want to conclude, minister. Labour supports the provision of more childcare now, under devolution. As I said, the SNP could have gone much further last wee...