Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 07 November 2013
07 Nov 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Tribunals (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
According to that committee, a tribunal is
“A body which resolves disputes between citizens and state and between private parties by making binding decisions according to law, does so by a process of adjudication which is specialised, relatively informal and less adversarial as compared to the model of adjudication applied by the courts and is independent of both the executive and the legislature and of the parties appearing before it.”
Tribunals in Scotland deal with 80,000 cases annually. Without them, individuals would either lose an avenue for redress or be forced to take their grievances into a court system that is already overstretched and—I am sad to say—likely to become more so with the court closures that are planned.
In some instances, a tribunal is a forum for citizens to challenge decisions made by public bodies on their entitlement to benefits and services. Because of that, it is imperative that they are independent from Government and the public organisations whose decisions they regulate. In other cases, they are a forum for the resolution of private disputes—as we see, for example, in the Lands Tribunal for Scotland’s work—or issues arising from employment. In essence, tribunals offer a less formal and less costly dispute resolution mechanism as an alternative to the courts. However, as the Justice Committee heard from a wide range of witnesses, the current complicated tribunal system, which has developed in an ad hoc way over the past decades, needs to be reformed, and the committee’s stage 1 report confirms that users and experts generally welcome the bill as a step towards revising the administrative justice landscape.
The bill creates a first-tier tribunal for first-instance decisions; an upper tribunal to deal primarily with appeals; and a standard system of appointment, training and appeals. However, although all of that is generally to be welcomed, there are, as the stage 1 report notes, certain areas of concern that will need to be addressed as the bill progresses, including the balancing act that the Government will have to perform between establishing a simplified uniform system and recognising that tribunals deal with very specialised areas of the law.
That challenge was reflected in the evidence that the Justice Committee received from the Lands Tribunal, which is a vocal critic of the bill and the creation of a uniform system. In its written submission, it noted that
“to aim for common standards and procedures, including review and appeal, as a significant plank of policy risks creation of a serious impediment to identifying the most efficient way of serving the different needs of individual users”.
Consequently, the Lands Tribunal has argued that, instead of occupying a division in the upper tribunal as the Scottish Government has proposed, it should be placed in a separate pillar. Indeed, that position has been supported by the Lord President.
The difficulty with the Lands Tribunal for Scotland not being included in the new structure is the precedent that that would set for the approach to other tribunals that are equally specialist, which would result in a complex arrangement under the new system, representing not a lot of change. The challenge for the Scottish Government is to establish some standardisation without compromising the interests of users of the tribunal system. I note that the minister has recognised that with the requirement for flexibility.
The stage 1 report also highlights the legitimate concern that has been raised about judicialisation or so-called courtification. In other words, there is a need to ensure that the characteristics of tribunals, as distinct from those of courts, are protected. That concern springs from, among other things, the provision that sheriffs, sheriff principals and part-time sheriffs will be eligible to act as judicial members of the first-tier tribunal by virtue of their judicial office alone. Although the Lord President is supportive of that proposal, an influx of judges and former judges risks turning tribunals from informal and generally non-adversarial environments into courts in all but name. The Justice Committee’s stage 1 report therefore recommends that the Government seriously consider amending the bill to remove automatic entitlement in the appointment of judicial members. A further concern is that, because judicial members may be appointed to the first-tier and upper tribunals, the current gender inequality that is present in the wider judicial system may be replicated in the new tribunal structure.
The bill makes provision for the newly established Scottish Civil Justice Council to propose procedural rules for the Scottish tribunals through a specialised tribunals committee. However, without additional resources, it will be years before the SCJC, which must first rewrite a mountain of civil court rules, will be able even to consider tribunal rules. The Government has proposed that, in the interim, Scottish ministers should make rules for Scottish tribunals, but that interim rule-making arrangement poses serious constitutional issues, as it would result in Scottish ministers writing the rules of administrative justice and significantly drafting the rules surrounding the newly created upper tribunal. Although that may already happen on a limited basis, it remains, as the Faculty of Advocates pointed out to the committee, “undesirable on constitutional grounds”. As Jonathan Mitchell QC said:
“Scottish Ministers should have the same rights as other parties to proceedings before the tribunals to comment on proposed rules, but no power to write them.”
Scottish ministers can be challenged in tribunals, and it is simply not appropriate for them to be involved in setting the rules. An alternative must be found in either the creation of a new, independent interim body or the additional resources that the SCJC would require in order to carry out that role.
All those issues will require to be addressed in the future. In the meantime, I confirm that the Scottish Conservatives will support the general principles of the bill.
“A body which resolves disputes between citizens and state and between private parties by making binding decisions according to law, does so by a process of adjudication which is specialised, relatively informal and less adversarial as compared to the model of adjudication applied by the courts and is independent of both the executive and the legislature and of the parties appearing before it.”
Tribunals in Scotland deal with 80,000 cases annually. Without them, individuals would either lose an avenue for redress or be forced to take their grievances into a court system that is already overstretched and—I am sad to say—likely to become more so with the court closures that are planned.
In some instances, a tribunal is a forum for citizens to challenge decisions made by public bodies on their entitlement to benefits and services. Because of that, it is imperative that they are independent from Government and the public organisations whose decisions they regulate. In other cases, they are a forum for the resolution of private disputes—as we see, for example, in the Lands Tribunal for Scotland’s work—or issues arising from employment. In essence, tribunals offer a less formal and less costly dispute resolution mechanism as an alternative to the courts. However, as the Justice Committee heard from a wide range of witnesses, the current complicated tribunal system, which has developed in an ad hoc way over the past decades, needs to be reformed, and the committee’s stage 1 report confirms that users and experts generally welcome the bill as a step towards revising the administrative justice landscape.
The bill creates a first-tier tribunal for first-instance decisions; an upper tribunal to deal primarily with appeals; and a standard system of appointment, training and appeals. However, although all of that is generally to be welcomed, there are, as the stage 1 report notes, certain areas of concern that will need to be addressed as the bill progresses, including the balancing act that the Government will have to perform between establishing a simplified uniform system and recognising that tribunals deal with very specialised areas of the law.
That challenge was reflected in the evidence that the Justice Committee received from the Lands Tribunal, which is a vocal critic of the bill and the creation of a uniform system. In its written submission, it noted that
“to aim for common standards and procedures, including review and appeal, as a significant plank of policy risks creation of a serious impediment to identifying the most efficient way of serving the different needs of individual users”.
Consequently, the Lands Tribunal has argued that, instead of occupying a division in the upper tribunal as the Scottish Government has proposed, it should be placed in a separate pillar. Indeed, that position has been supported by the Lord President.
The difficulty with the Lands Tribunal for Scotland not being included in the new structure is the precedent that that would set for the approach to other tribunals that are equally specialist, which would result in a complex arrangement under the new system, representing not a lot of change. The challenge for the Scottish Government is to establish some standardisation without compromising the interests of users of the tribunal system. I note that the minister has recognised that with the requirement for flexibility.
The stage 1 report also highlights the legitimate concern that has been raised about judicialisation or so-called courtification. In other words, there is a need to ensure that the characteristics of tribunals, as distinct from those of courts, are protected. That concern springs from, among other things, the provision that sheriffs, sheriff principals and part-time sheriffs will be eligible to act as judicial members of the first-tier tribunal by virtue of their judicial office alone. Although the Lord President is supportive of that proposal, an influx of judges and former judges risks turning tribunals from informal and generally non-adversarial environments into courts in all but name. The Justice Committee’s stage 1 report therefore recommends that the Government seriously consider amending the bill to remove automatic entitlement in the appointment of judicial members. A further concern is that, because judicial members may be appointed to the first-tier and upper tribunals, the current gender inequality that is present in the wider judicial system may be replicated in the new tribunal structure.
The bill makes provision for the newly established Scottish Civil Justice Council to propose procedural rules for the Scottish tribunals through a specialised tribunals committee. However, without additional resources, it will be years before the SCJC, which must first rewrite a mountain of civil court rules, will be able even to consider tribunal rules. The Government has proposed that, in the interim, Scottish ministers should make rules for Scottish tribunals, but that interim rule-making arrangement poses serious constitutional issues, as it would result in Scottish ministers writing the rules of administrative justice and significantly drafting the rules surrounding the newly created upper tribunal. Although that may already happen on a limited basis, it remains, as the Faculty of Advocates pointed out to the committee, “undesirable on constitutional grounds”. As Jonathan Mitchell QC said:
“Scottish Ministers should have the same rights as other parties to proceedings before the tribunals to comment on proposed rules, but no power to write them.”
Scottish ministers can be challenged in tribunals, and it is simply not appropriate for them to be involved in setting the rules. An alternative must be found in either the creation of a new, independent interim body or the additional resources that the SCJC would require in order to carry out that role.
All those issues will require to be addressed in the future. In the meantime, I confirm that the Scottish Conservatives will support the general principles of the bill.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-08145, in the name of Roseanna Cunningham, on the Tribunals (Scotland) Bill.
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Roseanna Cunningham)
SNP
I am delighted to open this stage 1 debate on the Tribunals (Scotland) Bill. I thank the Justice Committee for its scrutiny of the bill at stage 1 and for th...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
The minister says that there will be an assignment, rather than an appointment. There is public expectation that the post and person specifications will be c...
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
We want to ensure that the Lord President’s role is paramount. Members need to keep that in mind. I do not want to get into the business of defining matters ...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
I shall say this very slowly: I am amending parts of my speech.
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
I thought that that might be the case.Members need to keep it in mind that each tribunal was created by an act of Parliament. They are all required to operat...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Thank you, minister. If “courtification” is not a word, it should be. I call Christine Grahame to speak on behalf of the Justice Committee—you have 10 minute...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
Heavens.It says in my notes, “Welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate”. I think that that might be going a bit too far. I speak on behalf of the Justi...
Christine Grahame
SNP
I am sure that Mr Stevenson will tell me about an even greater tumbleweed debate.
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
I wonder whether the member remembers the Court of Session Act 1693—Laughter.. It specifically says that“no person presume to speake after the Lords begin to...
Christine Grahame
SNP
I liked the last bit, but the idea that I was around in 1693 is a bit wounding.By way of introduction, I will take members on a brief journey through the mix...
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
It is assignment.
Christine Grahame
SNP
Thank you.The president will be responsible for the efficient disposal of tribunal business. Currently, only a senator of the College of Justice can be assig...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Courtification.
Christine Grahame
SNP
I will need to develop adjectives and adverbs now.We concluded that how legal members of tribunals are referred to was a matter for individual tribunals to d...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Thank you, Ms Grahame. It might be helpful to members if I advise that we have a little time in hand. If members take interventions, the Presiding Officers w...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Lab
The Scottish Parliament has, over the years, debated many bills that have attracted significant media and public attention. Bills have given the entitlement ...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
I wonder whether it would be helpful to look at the way that the Scottish Parliament information centre has described what a tribunal is. It seems to me that...
Elaine Murray
Lab
I thank the member for his intervention. That was along the lines of some of the suggestions that were made to the committee, and I think that we will be kee...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
As tribunals form an important part of our civil justice system, I welcome the opportunity to speak in this stage 1 debate on the general principles of the T...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
I would be delighted.
Margaret Mitchell
Con
According to that committee, a tribunal is“A body which resolves disputes between citizens and state and between private parties by making binding decisions ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
We move to the open debate. There is a modest amount of time in hand for interventions.15:14
Colin Keir (Edinburgh Western) (SNP)
SNP
I am not terribly sure that I am delighted to be speaking here today, but it is my last hurrah as a member of the Justice Committee. There is an element of d...
Christine Grahame
SNP
Mention them again.
Colin Keir
SNP
No—I refuse to mention them again. Ms Grahame should just sit there. She has had her shot.Anyway, use of affirmative procedure will provide some parliamentar...
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
Lab
Sometimes it takes weeks to hear repetition in the chamber, but when it does we tend to think, “Oh, no! Not that again.” However, we are less than an hour in...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate and I declare my interest as a member of the Faculty of Advocates.As members are aware, the UK Government ha...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
Will Roderick Campbell give way?
Roderick Campbell
SNP
I am not sure that I have time, to be honest, but I will give way if the intervention is brief.