Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 18 September 2013
18 Sep 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Future
I thought that I made an excellent point, but obviously the First Minister, as ever, missed it. He is saying that all decisions have to be made here, but we have the right to make decisions where decisions lie. The logic of the First Minister’s position is that we would not be in Europe, the United Nations or anywhere else.
There is an assumption that the rest of the United Kingdom wants to deny us our rights and potential, that Scots are more progressive, fairer and more generous, and that, if only we could rule ourselves, all the ills of society would disappear. That complacency and that belief that there are inevitable differences denies the need to reaffirm every day the importance of fairness, justice, respect and compassion, and insults all those radical voices right across the United Kingdom who are as concerned as we are about what is happening in the country. Only the Scottish National Party could look at the record of Labour Governments in creating the NHS, developing the welfare state, opening up educational and economic opportunity, tackling child poverty and supporting people into work, say that there is no difference between Labour and the Tory party, and then say that it offers a promise of a better world that is funded by cuts in corporation tax to 3p lower than anything that a Tory chancellor would offer.
The truth is that, regardless of economic circumstances, on high days and holidays, in good times and bad, the SNP holds on to its belief in independence. That is not a response to the banking crisis, foreign wars or a Tory Government; it is the politics of nationalism looking for a justification—a belief that is held when all else changes, regardless of what the evidence says. I changed my mind in the 1980s when I saw what Thatcher was doing to children whom I taught, but I know that Alex Salmond has been on no constitutional journey. He believed in independence 40 years ago and he believes in it today.
The SNP says that it speaks for Scottish values, but the values of community, co-operation, being a good neighbour and solidarity are embodied in the United Kingdom, not repudiated by it. The SNP often tells us to look at our history, but it is too often guilty of rewriting our history. An understanding of our history makes me a socialist, not a nationalist. [Interruption.]
There is an assumption that the rest of the United Kingdom wants to deny us our rights and potential, that Scots are more progressive, fairer and more generous, and that, if only we could rule ourselves, all the ills of society would disappear. That complacency and that belief that there are inevitable differences denies the need to reaffirm every day the importance of fairness, justice, respect and compassion, and insults all those radical voices right across the United Kingdom who are as concerned as we are about what is happening in the country. Only the Scottish National Party could look at the record of Labour Governments in creating the NHS, developing the welfare state, opening up educational and economic opportunity, tackling child poverty and supporting people into work, say that there is no difference between Labour and the Tory party, and then say that it offers a promise of a better world that is funded by cuts in corporation tax to 3p lower than anything that a Tory chancellor would offer.
The truth is that, regardless of economic circumstances, on high days and holidays, in good times and bad, the SNP holds on to its belief in independence. That is not a response to the banking crisis, foreign wars or a Tory Government; it is the politics of nationalism looking for a justification—a belief that is held when all else changes, regardless of what the evidence says. I changed my mind in the 1980s when I saw what Thatcher was doing to children whom I taught, but I know that Alex Salmond has been on no constitutional journey. He believed in independence 40 years ago and he believes in it today.
The SNP says that it speaks for Scottish values, but the values of community, co-operation, being a good neighbour and solidarity are embodied in the United Kingdom, not repudiated by it. The SNP often tells us to look at our history, but it is too often guilty of rewriting our history. An understanding of our history makes me a socialist, not a nationalist. [Interruption.]
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-07721, in the name of Alex Salmond, on Scotland’s future.14:40
The First Minister (Alex Salmond)
SNP
It will give me enormous pleasure to move the motion in my name. In exactly a year’s time, the people of Scotland will choose whether to become an independen...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con)
Con
The approach of “empathy, not enmity” does not appear to have lasted long.The First Minister suggested that“an independent Scotland will not inherit any shar...
The First Minister
SNP
First, I do not think that commenting on what the United Nations rapporteur has said is introducing antipathy into the debate; it is the bedroom tax that is ...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Lab
I am proud to rise and speak to the amendment in my name. Indeed, it is because I am a proud Scot, not despite it, that I support Scotland’s remaining strong...
The First Minister
SNP
Earlier today—and I have the quotation here—Johann Lamont herself made the argument for Scottish decision making. She said about the Scottish Parliament:“Wha...
Johann Lamont
Lab
I thought that I made an excellent point, but obviously the First Minister, as ever, missed it. He is saying that all decisions have to be made here, but we ...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Order.
Johann Lamont
Lab
Alex Salmond looks at the Parliament of 1707 and says, “This Parliament is reconvened.” This Parliament, with a democratic suffrage, has nothing to do with t...
Ruth Davidson (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
In the run-up to today, the year-out point from the referendum, words such as “historic” “generational” and “once in a lifetime” have been regularly sprinkle...
Margo MacDonald (Lothian) (Ind)
Ind
I wonder whether Ruth Davidson is aware that there are fewer men under arms in the British army and other services now than there were at the start of the ba...
Ruth Davidson
Con
I believe that our footprint around the world is such that we are in the top three defence forces in the world, given our commitment of gross domestic produc...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Order.
Ruth Davidson
Con
I believe that our future alliances, our future assistance and our future security will be best served by the British Army, Royal Navy and Royal Air Force—
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
Will Ruth Davidson give way?
Ruth Davidson
Con
—and not by the division of personnel, platforms, assets and hardware that separation would entail.
Kevin Stewart
SNP
Will the member give way?
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The member is not giving way, Mr Stewart.
Ruth Davidson
Con
If Margo MacDonald is making the point that our footprint is smaller than it once was, in different times of war, to break up our nation and break up that de...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Ms Davidson, you must end.
Ruth Davidson
Con
I believe in devolution. I believe in a strong Scottish Parliament in a strong UK and that is why I am proud to back the amendment to the motion.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We now move to the open debate. Speeches are to be six minutes long. I ask members to be as brief as they can.15:10
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP)
SNP
We live in exciting times. This is a time of potential responsibility and opportunity for our nation, although when people listen to the leader of the Labour...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Name and shame him!
George Adam
SNP
No, I will not do that, because he is not here.One young boy came up to me afterwards and said, in true Paisley fashion, “George—you had him on toast.”During...
Margo MacDonald
Ind
On the matter of campaigning 40 years ago, I was there. A report then found that one child in 10 was born to fail.
George Adam
SNP
I remember hearing about that report. It was one of the things that motivated me to become involved in politics. It is one of the reasons why, in the real wo...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
You must bring your remarks to a close, Mr Adam.
George Adam
SNP
We have the bedroom tax currently, and Mr Sarwar, the deputy leader of the Labour Party, is constantly making all kinds of accusations, and policy on the hop...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I really must ask you to close, Mr Adam.