Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 25 September 2013
25 Sep 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Children and Young People (Named Persons)
I find myself in unfamiliar territory. I have always supported the GIRFEC approach to child protection and I continue to back the principles behind getting it right for every child. I normally find myself on the side of the children’s organisations who lobbied members before the debate, and I certainly would not say that I have a knee-jerk opposition to state intervention.
However, I not only recognise but share the concerns that are expressed in the Tory motion. My instinct as a parent is to question the need for all children and their families to be allocated a named person, when it is the few who are at risk. My main worry is that despite the best intentions, the exercise could end up diverting scarce resources from the children who are most in need.
I am sure that few people in Scotland, let alone in Parliament, fail to recognise the need to protect and help our most vulnerable children. The national news is too often taken up by stories of neglect and abuse and the all-too-horrific consequence that is a child dying at the hands of his or her own parents.
However, I find it difficult to see how appointing a named person to look after, for example, each of my six children, the children of Gavin Brown and—dare I say it?—those of the minister will do anything to improve child protection or prevent such deaths. I fail to follow the argument that by giving a health visitor or teacher responsibility for 30 well brought up children—or even not very well brought up children—we will help them to recognise the one child who needs support and intervention.
What is worse, time that is spent filling in forms for children who will never need intervention is time that would be better spent on children who are in desperate need of help. Resources that are diverted to children who are loved, nurtured and thriving are resources that are not spent on the neglected and the vulnerable.
However, I not only recognise but share the concerns that are expressed in the Tory motion. My instinct as a parent is to question the need for all children and their families to be allocated a named person, when it is the few who are at risk. My main worry is that despite the best intentions, the exercise could end up diverting scarce resources from the children who are most in need.
I am sure that few people in Scotland, let alone in Parliament, fail to recognise the need to protect and help our most vulnerable children. The national news is too often taken up by stories of neglect and abuse and the all-too-horrific consequence that is a child dying at the hands of his or her own parents.
However, I find it difficult to see how appointing a named person to look after, for example, each of my six children, the children of Gavin Brown and—dare I say it?—those of the minister will do anything to improve child protection or prevent such deaths. I fail to follow the argument that by giving a health visitor or teacher responsibility for 30 well brought up children—or even not very well brought up children—we will help them to recognise the one child who needs support and intervention.
What is worse, time that is spent filling in forms for children who will never need intervention is time that would be better spent on children who are in desperate need of help. Resources that are diverted to children who are loved, nurtured and thriving are resources that are not spent on the neglected and the vulnerable.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-07783, in the name of Liz Smith, on named persons. The debate is oversubscribed and we are extremely tigh...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I do not think that anyone who followed the Daniel Pelka case this summer could be anything other than repulsed by the depths of the depravity that confronte...
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell)
SNP
Liz Smith is hugely misrepresenting the intention behind the bill, and I will certainly be making some remarks about our intentions in my opening speech. How...
Liz Smith
Con
If the minister cares to read much of the evidence on this, she will see that, among the legal community in particular, there are deep-seated concerns, some ...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
The member is, like me, a member of the Education and Culture Committee and will know that a consistent theme that has emerged over the past two years in our...
Liz Smith
Con
I do not accept that. The fact is that the approach taken to GIRFEC in the Highlands has been hugely successful and, as many witnesses who have given evidenc...
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell)
SNP
The Scottish Government believes that action must be taken to put in place a proportionate system of protection, nurture and support to give all our children...
Liz Smith
Con
Is not it the case that those parents were parents of children who required additional support rather than parents whose families did not have problems?
Aileen Campbell
SNP
I will go on to talk about some more parental input to the process as I make progress in my opening remarks.As the evidence from Highland Council eloquently ...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Will the minister say that she needs to do more to convince parents that the idea is good? If she accepts that, how does she plan to do that over the months ...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
Absolutely. As the bill progresses through Parliament, we will be able to ensure that our narrative deals with some of the issues that parents raise. As I sa...
Liz Smith
Con
Will the minister give way?
Aileen Campbell
SNP
No.That is why I believe that the named person service should be based in the universal services of health and education. We are not changing what they do; w...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
The context in which I made that observation was in relation to health visitors and the option for authorities to be able to look at families about which con...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
Perhaps there is a bit of inconsistency from the Conservatives. Last session, they seemed to agree with all that we are trying to achieve with GIRFEC, but in...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to open this debate for the Scottish Labour Party. We support the principles of getting it right for every child and welcome the mo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Final minute.
Jayne Baxter
Lab
I hope that the Scottish Government will listen to the many constructive suggestions that have been made. What we have in the named person for every child is...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
In turning to the open debate, I am afraid that I have to advise members that the debate is oversubscribed, so we may have to lose a member from it. Speeches...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Unfortunately, I have to begin by expressing my disappointment that we are having this debate at this time, and that the Conservative group has brought to th...
Liz Smith
Con
As was said earlier this afternoon, is it not helpful to have a parliamentary debate to flesh out some of the concerns that have already been raised? We have...
Stewart Maxwell
SNP
I am sorry, but Liz Smith spent part of her speech criticising specific points in the evidence about particular words and their definitions. It is exactly th...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Oh, come on! Interruption.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Order, please.
Stewart Maxwell
SNP
However, we are where we are, and on the balance of the evidence that the committee has received thus far, it is clear that there is widespread support for t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I call Ken Macintosh, to be followed by Clare Adamson.16:21
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab)
Lab
I find myself in unfamiliar territory. I have always supported the GIRFEC approach to child protection and I continue to back the principles behind getting i...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
Ken Macintosh grossly misrepresents what the named person is. There are many times and instances in which the child—like his children and my children—will no...
Ken Macintosh
Lab
I have no difficulty accessing my children’s teacher, health visitor or anyone else, and I do not see why they have to be a named person. The approach does n...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I repeat to members that I have no extra time available in this debate; there are no seconds at all.I call Gavin Brown, to be followed by George Adam.16:26