Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 25 September 2013
25 Sep 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Children and Young People (Named Persons)
Perhaps there is a bit of inconsistency from the Conservatives. Last session, they seemed to agree with all that we are trying to achieve with GIRFEC, but in this instance they do not seem to be reflecting that previous position.
The concerns that parents or children raise sometimes need the attention of one or more professionals from different organisations or disciplines, and they need help in navigating their way through the various services that are available. As one Edinburgh parent put it:
“For me, the concept of the Named Person works because I will have a named and known professional with whom I can communicate any concerns or share information. Parents are often frustrated and confused by not knowing who to contact, or by frequently-changing professional teams. At times of pressure or concern, clarity will be a real benefit.”
We cannot forget the rare occasions when parents and families do not provide the right support and loving environment for their children. The recent tragic case of Daniel Pelka, which Liz Smith mentioned, highlighted the importance of professionals putting the child’s interest at the heart of what they do, and of their communicating their concerns. Anne Houston of Children 1st said:
“Deaths like Daniel’s remind us why the principle behind the named person ... is a sound one as it aims to prevent children slipping through the net.”
I am not claiming that the existence of a named person would necessarily prevent such tragedies, but as Ruth Wishart said in her excellent article in The Herald:
“It’s unrealistic to suppose we can stop every incident of child abuse, identify every perpetrator, always intervene in time to prevent tragedy. But we can make a big difference.”
Issues have been raised around information sharing, and such cases highlight the importance of sharing information where it is required in order to protect a child’s wellbeing. Any sharing of information under the bill must take place fully within the framework that is set by the Data Protection Act 1998 and the European convention on human rights. A preventative approach means that action should be taken before things get serious, and the named person provides a structure for doing that.
Issues have been raised around the cost of GIRFEC, but of course it is not always just about costs; we know that the GIRFEC approach is making savings. We know from the Highland pilot the kind of savings that have been made: reductions in social work case loads of 50 per cent, reductions in referrals to the children’s reporter of 70 per cent and reductions in the number of children who have been accommodated. We know that the areas that are the furthest advanced in implementing GIRFEC have had similar findings.
Over the years, Parliament has repeatedly endorsed the GIRFEC approach and I hope that at the end of today’s business we will be able to do so again.
I move amendment S4M-07783.2, to leave out from “notes” to end and insert:
“reaffirms its ambition that Scotland should be the best place in the world for children and young people to grow up; considers that the protection of children from harm and the promotion of their wellbeing is of paramount importance; recognises the critical role in achieving that of the Getting It Right for Every Child approach, which has been successfully developed in Scotland ever since its inception during the first administration after devolution; understands that the named person has been developed and implemented as an essential element of that approach, as a means of making appropriate and proportionate support available to children and families in a coordinated and collaborative way, reducing bureaucracy and making the best use of public resources, and welcomes the opportunity provided by the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill to secure the protection, nurture and support that children and their families need to flourish”.
16:13
The concerns that parents or children raise sometimes need the attention of one or more professionals from different organisations or disciplines, and they need help in navigating their way through the various services that are available. As one Edinburgh parent put it:
“For me, the concept of the Named Person works because I will have a named and known professional with whom I can communicate any concerns or share information. Parents are often frustrated and confused by not knowing who to contact, or by frequently-changing professional teams. At times of pressure or concern, clarity will be a real benefit.”
We cannot forget the rare occasions when parents and families do not provide the right support and loving environment for their children. The recent tragic case of Daniel Pelka, which Liz Smith mentioned, highlighted the importance of professionals putting the child’s interest at the heart of what they do, and of their communicating their concerns. Anne Houston of Children 1st said:
“Deaths like Daniel’s remind us why the principle behind the named person ... is a sound one as it aims to prevent children slipping through the net.”
I am not claiming that the existence of a named person would necessarily prevent such tragedies, but as Ruth Wishart said in her excellent article in The Herald:
“It’s unrealistic to suppose we can stop every incident of child abuse, identify every perpetrator, always intervene in time to prevent tragedy. But we can make a big difference.”
Issues have been raised around information sharing, and such cases highlight the importance of sharing information where it is required in order to protect a child’s wellbeing. Any sharing of information under the bill must take place fully within the framework that is set by the Data Protection Act 1998 and the European convention on human rights. A preventative approach means that action should be taken before things get serious, and the named person provides a structure for doing that.
Issues have been raised around the cost of GIRFEC, but of course it is not always just about costs; we know that the GIRFEC approach is making savings. We know from the Highland pilot the kind of savings that have been made: reductions in social work case loads of 50 per cent, reductions in referrals to the children’s reporter of 70 per cent and reductions in the number of children who have been accommodated. We know that the areas that are the furthest advanced in implementing GIRFEC have had similar findings.
Over the years, Parliament has repeatedly endorsed the GIRFEC approach and I hope that at the end of today’s business we will be able to do so again.
I move amendment S4M-07783.2, to leave out from “notes” to end and insert:
“reaffirms its ambition that Scotland should be the best place in the world for children and young people to grow up; considers that the protection of children from harm and the promotion of their wellbeing is of paramount importance; recognises the critical role in achieving that of the Getting It Right for Every Child approach, which has been successfully developed in Scotland ever since its inception during the first administration after devolution; understands that the named person has been developed and implemented as an essential element of that approach, as a means of making appropriate and proportionate support available to children and families in a coordinated and collaborative way, reducing bureaucracy and making the best use of public resources, and welcomes the opportunity provided by the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill to secure the protection, nurture and support that children and their families need to flourish”.
16:13
References in this contribution
Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.
- S4M-07783.2 Named Persons Motion
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-07783, in the name of Liz Smith, on named persons. The debate is oversubscribed and we are extremely tigh...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I do not think that anyone who followed the Daniel Pelka case this summer could be anything other than repulsed by the depths of the depravity that confronte...
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell)
SNP
Liz Smith is hugely misrepresenting the intention behind the bill, and I will certainly be making some remarks about our intentions in my opening speech. How...
Liz Smith
Con
If the minister cares to read much of the evidence on this, she will see that, among the legal community in particular, there are deep-seated concerns, some ...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
The member is, like me, a member of the Education and Culture Committee and will know that a consistent theme that has emerged over the past two years in our...
Liz Smith
Con
I do not accept that. The fact is that the approach taken to GIRFEC in the Highlands has been hugely successful and, as many witnesses who have given evidenc...
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell)
SNP
The Scottish Government believes that action must be taken to put in place a proportionate system of protection, nurture and support to give all our children...
Liz Smith
Con
Is not it the case that those parents were parents of children who required additional support rather than parents whose families did not have problems?
Aileen Campbell
SNP
I will go on to talk about some more parental input to the process as I make progress in my opening remarks.As the evidence from Highland Council eloquently ...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Will the minister say that she needs to do more to convince parents that the idea is good? If she accepts that, how does she plan to do that over the months ...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
Absolutely. As the bill progresses through Parliament, we will be able to ensure that our narrative deals with some of the issues that parents raise. As I sa...
Liz Smith
Con
Will the minister give way?
Aileen Campbell
SNP
No.That is why I believe that the named person service should be based in the universal services of health and education. We are not changing what they do; w...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
The context in which I made that observation was in relation to health visitors and the option for authorities to be able to look at families about which con...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
Perhaps there is a bit of inconsistency from the Conservatives. Last session, they seemed to agree with all that we are trying to achieve with GIRFEC, but in...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to open this debate for the Scottish Labour Party. We support the principles of getting it right for every child and welcome the mo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Final minute.
Jayne Baxter
Lab
I hope that the Scottish Government will listen to the many constructive suggestions that have been made. What we have in the named person for every child is...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
In turning to the open debate, I am afraid that I have to advise members that the debate is oversubscribed, so we may have to lose a member from it. Speeches...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Unfortunately, I have to begin by expressing my disappointment that we are having this debate at this time, and that the Conservative group has brought to th...
Liz Smith
Con
As was said earlier this afternoon, is it not helpful to have a parliamentary debate to flesh out some of the concerns that have already been raised? We have...
Stewart Maxwell
SNP
I am sorry, but Liz Smith spent part of her speech criticising specific points in the evidence about particular words and their definitions. It is exactly th...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Oh, come on! Interruption.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Order, please.
Stewart Maxwell
SNP
However, we are where we are, and on the balance of the evidence that the committee has received thus far, it is clear that there is widespread support for t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I call Ken Macintosh, to be followed by Clare Adamson.16:21
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab)
Lab
I find myself in unfamiliar territory. I have always supported the GIRFEC approach to child protection and I continue to back the principles behind getting i...
Aileen Campbell
SNP
Ken Macintosh grossly misrepresents what the named person is. There are many times and instances in which the child—like his children and my children—will no...
Ken Macintosh
Lab
I have no difficulty accessing my children’s teacher, health visitor or anyone else, and I do not see why they have to be a named person. The approach does n...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I repeat to members that I have no extra time available in this debate; there are no seconds at all.I call Gavin Brown, to be followed by George Adam.16:26