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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 September 2013

25 Sep 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Children and Young People (Named Persons)
Smith, Liz Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV
I do not accept that. The fact is that the approach taken to GIRFEC in the Highlands has been hugely successful and, as many witnesses who have given evidence have told us—and Mr Maxwell will know this because he was at the same evidence sessions—it is all about changing a culture rather than introducing top-heavy legislation.

My colleague Gavin Brown will explain our concerns about the proposal’s costs, which is an issue that has been discussed in great depth by the Finance Committee and the Education and Culture Committee, but I must point out a number of other problems. We have frequently been asked about how the named person will be chosen, and specifically whether the parents or child or both would have any input into that; what happens when relations break down between the named person and the family; what will be the relationship between the named person and a lead professional; and whether there really will be a single point of contact. There are also concerns about data sharing, particularly what is meant by the stipulation that information should be shared if it “might be relevant” to a child’s wellbeing and if it “ought to be provided”. What do those phrases mean? The law officers have made it very clear that such wording is open-ended, and it is simply not acceptable.

The Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill contains some excellent policy commitments, including those that seek to address pressing issues with regard to childcare, care leavers and kinship carers but, taken in its entirety, it is designed to take an unacceptable degree of responsibility away from many parents and families.

We fundamentally disagree with that, as, indeed, do some powerful voices to which I have referred in my opening remarks. We therefore want the Scottish Government to review its approach to the bill, specifically to ensure that the limited resources are targeted at the most vulnerable and that responsibility is placed in the right hands. In particular, we want the Scottish Government to review the policy on named persons, which is the issue that has already aroused the greatest controversy and concern. Expecting all children to have a named person in the terms stated in the bill is an assault on the responsibility of families and parents for whose children there are no real problems. It is unnecessary and an undesirable intrusion of the state and, just as important, it threatens to take away resources from the most vulnerable.

I move,

That the Parliament notes with concern the Scottish Government’s proposals to introduce a named person for all children and young people up to age 18; agrees with those groups that believe that, for many families, the named person would undermine the role of parents, and agrees with the many stakeholders who have expressed concerns about the extensive costs and bureaucracy of the policy and the likely implications of diverting limited resources away from the most vulnerable children.

16:05

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-07783, in the name of Liz Smith, on named persons. The debate is oversubscribed and we are extremely tigh...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I do not think that anyone who followed the Daniel Pelka case this summer could be anything other than repulsed by the depths of the depravity that confronte...
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell) SNP
Liz Smith is hugely misrepresenting the intention behind the bill, and I will certainly be making some remarks about our intentions in my opening speech. How...
Liz Smith Con
If the minister cares to read much of the evidence on this, she will see that, among the legal community in particular, there are deep-seated concerns, some ...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
The member is, like me, a member of the Education and Culture Committee and will know that a consistent theme that has emerged over the past two years in our...
Liz Smith Con
I do not accept that. The fact is that the approach taken to GIRFEC in the Highlands has been hugely successful and, as many witnesses who have given evidenc...
The Minister for Children and Young People (Aileen Campbell) SNP
The Scottish Government believes that action must be taken to put in place a proportionate system of protection, nurture and support to give all our children...
Liz Smith Con
Is not it the case that those parents were parents of children who required additional support rather than parents whose families did not have problems?
Aileen Campbell SNP
I will go on to talk about some more parental input to the process as I make progress in my opening remarks.As the evidence from Highland Council eloquently ...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister say that she needs to do more to convince parents that the idea is good? If she accepts that, how does she plan to do that over the months ...
Aileen Campbell SNP
Absolutely. As the bill progresses through Parliament, we will be able to ensure that our narrative deals with some of the issues that parents raise. As I sa...
Liz Smith Con
Will the minister give way?
Aileen Campbell SNP
No.That is why I believe that the named person service should be based in the universal services of health and education. We are not changing what they do; w...
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
The context in which I made that observation was in relation to health visitors and the option for authorities to be able to look at families about which con...
Aileen Campbell SNP
Perhaps there is a bit of inconsistency from the Conservatives. Last session, they seemed to agree with all that we are trying to achieve with GIRFEC, but in...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to open this debate for the Scottish Labour Party. We support the principles of getting it right for every child and welcome the mo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Final minute.
Jayne Baxter Lab
I hope that the Scottish Government will listen to the many constructive suggestions that have been made. What we have in the named person for every child is...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
In turning to the open debate, I am afraid that I have to advise members that the debate is oversubscribed, so we may have to lose a member from it. Speeches...
Stewart Maxwell (West Scotland) (SNP) SNP
Unfortunately, I have to begin by expressing my disappointment that we are having this debate at this time, and that the Conservative group has brought to th...
Liz Smith Con
As was said earlier this afternoon, is it not helpful to have a parliamentary debate to flesh out some of the concerns that have already been raised? We have...
Stewart Maxwell SNP
I am sorry, but Liz Smith spent part of her speech criticising specific points in the evidence about particular words and their definitions. It is exactly th...
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con) Con
Oh, come on! Interruption.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Order, please.
Stewart Maxwell SNP
However, we are where we are, and on the balance of the evidence that the committee has received thus far, it is clear that there is widespread support for t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I call Ken Macintosh, to be followed by Clare Adamson.16:21
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab) Lab
I find myself in unfamiliar territory. I have always supported the GIRFEC approach to child protection and I continue to back the principles behind getting i...
Aileen Campbell SNP
Ken Macintosh grossly misrepresents what the named person is. There are many times and instances in which the child—like his children and my children—will no...
Ken Macintosh Lab
I have no difficulty accessing my children’s teacher, health visitor or anyone else, and I do not see why they have to be a named person. The approach does n...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
I repeat to members that I have no extra time available in this debate; there are no seconds at all.I call Gavin Brown, to be followed by George Adam.16:26