Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 03 October 2013
03 Oct 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Common Agricultural Policy
It does not seem so long ago that we were gathered here to discuss the common agricultural policy reform proposals, but it has in fact been more than six months since we last debated the matter. Then, as now, discussion around the detail of the CAP negotiations engaged all sides of the chamber, as we worked towards pinpointing the best outcomes for farmers and for the agricultural sector in Scotland.
As dry and technical as the common agricultural policy can be, it underpins a number of issues of fundamental importance to Scotland’s future, namely the production and sustainability of our food and drink supply, the need to protect the environment for future generations, and the need to maximise the opportunities from all those things in the context of sustainable economic development and the climate change challenge.
Those points were put to me again last week by the Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust. The reality is that we need modern agriculture and increased productivity from our farms to meet the demands for feeding our population. However, without due care and attention, large-scale farming can lack the biodiversity that we need to support wildlife, water conservation and carbon storage, as the Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust has pointed out. The Parliament also considered such matters of biodiversity when we took time to discuss the consultation document “2020 Challenge for Scotland’s Biodiversity” before the summer recess, so I hope that the same attention is paid to those issues as the Scottish Government begins to implement the finer points of the CAP agreement in future.
A few weeks ago, the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee took evidence from the Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment, Richard Lochhead, on a number of issues, including CAP reform. In his opening evidence to the committee, the cabinet secretary was able to highlight some of the potential issues for farmers around the changes to pillar 1 payments, and he has revisited that topic today.
We are talking about reforms of complex subsidies, and the cabinet secretary has highlighted the concerns of farmers from the beef sector about the move from historical payments to area payments and the potential that they may miss out as a result of future changes. Conversely, however, such a move to area payments under the new process would seem to be good for farmers who have previously been sidelined from single farm payments, such as deer farmers. I know that members on all sides of the chamber have assiduously pursued the case for those farmers in the past.
Previously, we expressed concern that the changes to pillar 1 payments coming into force in 2015 would leave some farmers in limbo for the year in between, so it is good to have confirmation that 2014 will be a transitional year, before the changes come into play. The Labour amendment recognises the extremely tight timescale for the introduction of the new payment systems, especially for pillar 1, so it is important that the changes that will come into force are clearly explained to all in the farming communities and beyond, so that we know where we stand.
There will always be tensions between different sections of the same industry when competing for support or funding, but I recognise some of the concerns that have been raised by many bodies, including the National Sheep Association in Scotland, about the uncertainty of the changeover from single farm payments to area payments. I would be grateful if, in closing, the minister could address concerns from hill farmers about potentially huge disparities in payments between lowland arable farms, and hill farms and crofts, under the switch to area payments.
I also look forward to seeing how the Scottish Government will support the new greening requirements being placed on farmers, which are such an integral part of the reforms, given that 30 per cent of the allocation under pillar 1 payments is to be spent on practices that support environmental improvements.
It is interesting, but not surprising, that all the amendments before us, although varying slightly in form and content, seek to revise the section of the motion that makes assumptions about the money that Scotland could have been able to qualify for, had it been an independent member state. We are of course used to the Scottish Government telling us that the grass will be greener on the other side of the independence referendum, but it seems an unnecessarily speculative detail in this debate as it is too dependent on the unresolved issue of what would happen to Scotland’s EU membership post-independence. As I said back in March, it is difficult for farmers to receive direct payments from the European Commission when their Government is still negotiating their country’s accession terms. I would prefer to fix our focus on the realities of the system that we are in.
I am pleased that we are in the final stages of the CAP discussions. As I said before, I hope that we are able, as the Labour amendment suggests, to approach the implementation of the new agreement fairly while maintaining a mature dialogue on this issue.
15:41
As dry and technical as the common agricultural policy can be, it underpins a number of issues of fundamental importance to Scotland’s future, namely the production and sustainability of our food and drink supply, the need to protect the environment for future generations, and the need to maximise the opportunities from all those things in the context of sustainable economic development and the climate change challenge.
Those points were put to me again last week by the Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust. The reality is that we need modern agriculture and increased productivity from our farms to meet the demands for feeding our population. However, without due care and attention, large-scale farming can lack the biodiversity that we need to support wildlife, water conservation and carbon storage, as the Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust has pointed out. The Parliament also considered such matters of biodiversity when we took time to discuss the consultation document “2020 Challenge for Scotland’s Biodiversity” before the summer recess, so I hope that the same attention is paid to those issues as the Scottish Government begins to implement the finer points of the CAP agreement in future.
A few weeks ago, the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee took evidence from the Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment, Richard Lochhead, on a number of issues, including CAP reform. In his opening evidence to the committee, the cabinet secretary was able to highlight some of the potential issues for farmers around the changes to pillar 1 payments, and he has revisited that topic today.
We are talking about reforms of complex subsidies, and the cabinet secretary has highlighted the concerns of farmers from the beef sector about the move from historical payments to area payments and the potential that they may miss out as a result of future changes. Conversely, however, such a move to area payments under the new process would seem to be good for farmers who have previously been sidelined from single farm payments, such as deer farmers. I know that members on all sides of the chamber have assiduously pursued the case for those farmers in the past.
Previously, we expressed concern that the changes to pillar 1 payments coming into force in 2015 would leave some farmers in limbo for the year in between, so it is good to have confirmation that 2014 will be a transitional year, before the changes come into play. The Labour amendment recognises the extremely tight timescale for the introduction of the new payment systems, especially for pillar 1, so it is important that the changes that will come into force are clearly explained to all in the farming communities and beyond, so that we know where we stand.
There will always be tensions between different sections of the same industry when competing for support or funding, but I recognise some of the concerns that have been raised by many bodies, including the National Sheep Association in Scotland, about the uncertainty of the changeover from single farm payments to area payments. I would be grateful if, in closing, the minister could address concerns from hill farmers about potentially huge disparities in payments between lowland arable farms, and hill farms and crofts, under the switch to area payments.
I also look forward to seeing how the Scottish Government will support the new greening requirements being placed on farmers, which are such an integral part of the reforms, given that 30 per cent of the allocation under pillar 1 payments is to be spent on practices that support environmental improvements.
It is interesting, but not surprising, that all the amendments before us, although varying slightly in form and content, seek to revise the section of the motion that makes assumptions about the money that Scotland could have been able to qualify for, had it been an independent member state. We are of course used to the Scottish Government telling us that the grass will be greener on the other side of the independence referendum, but it seems an unnecessarily speculative detail in this debate as it is too dependent on the unresolved issue of what would happen to Scotland’s EU membership post-independence. As I said back in March, it is difficult for farmers to receive direct payments from the European Commission when their Government is still negotiating their country’s accession terms. I would prefer to fix our focus on the realities of the system that we are in.
I am pleased that we are in the final stages of the CAP discussions. As I said before, I hope that we are able, as the Labour amendment suggests, to approach the implementation of the new agreement fairly while maintaining a mature dialogue on this issue.
15:41
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
Good afternoon. The first item of business is a debate on motion S4M-07892, in the name of Richard Lochhead, on the common agricultural policy.
The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead)
SNP
The debate on the common agricultural policy for 2014 to 2020 provides an opportunity for the Government to update Parliament on the state of play in the Eur...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
Has the cabinet secretary approached the UK Government to discuss the possibility of calculating the 8 per cent on the UK’s share rather than just the Scotti...
Richard Lochhead
SNP
Yes we have, and I will talk about that now because this is a key area for Scotland.Unfortunately, our negotiator, Owen Paterson, did not want any coupled su...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
We have heard a lot about the UK Government not batting for Scotland. As I recall, the cabinet secretary was demanding an increase in the budget at the same ...
Richard Lochhead
SNP
I am sure that the member is aware that only 38 per cent of the Europe budget is for CAP. That is one area in which Scotland gets an extremely raw deal. We d...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
This is an opportune time to have a CAP debate, and we should not miss the opportunity to discuss the key issues. I welcome the cabinet secretary’s press rel...
Richard Lochhead
SNP
The figures that Claire Baker has read out illustrate why we have to move from the historical basis for payments to a new basis for payments. That is why we ...
Claire Baker
Lab
I accept that that is the formula that is used, but the story behind it is much more complex. It is not just about providing a fairer formula throughout the ...
The Minister for Environment and Climate Change (Paul Wheelhouse)
SNP
I hope that Claire Baker acknowledges that, if we were an independent member state in our own right, we would have benefited from the new formula in terms of...
Claire Baker
Lab
That is not the situation that we face. The SNP proposes that we go into the EU as a new member state and there are concerns about the negotiations that woul...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Con
This is a debate on which I wish it were possible for the Parliament to speak with one voice. We have often managed to do so on this topic in the past, but I...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD)
LD
I draw members’ attention to my declaration of interests.I spent last Saturday—as many of us do at this time of the year—at my local mart, in Lerwick. I hear...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
We turn to the open debate. Can I have speeches of six minutes, please?15:11
Rob Gibson (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
SNP
There have been some suggestions that we would be better not having a fragmented approach, but the motion and the amendments show that the fragmentation come...
Alex Fergusson
Con
Will Rob Gibson take a brief intervention?
Rob Gibson
SNP
I have hardly started, but I will.
Alex Fergusson
Con
It is better to take interventions early.If what Mr Gibson said about the budget deal is the case, why did the cabinet secretary describe the deal that came ...
Rob Gibson
SNP
The cabinet secretary was talking about the bits that we got into the deal in relation to dealing with active farming, the Scottish clause and so on—that is ...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
President Dwight Eisenhower famously said:“Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you’re a thousand miles from the corn field.”It is of co...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I call Angus MacDonald, to be followed by Graeme Dey. We have a small amount of time in hand for interventions.15:23
Angus MacDonald (Falkirk East) (SNP)
SNP
As we have heard from the cabinet secretary, the long-drawn-out saga of CAP reform is finally reaching a close, with a vote in the European Parliament in mid...
Claire Baker
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Angus MacDonald
SNP
Sorry. I have a lot to get into my six minutes.Ireland gets €70 per hectare, Finland gets €138 and the Czech Republic gets €83.With friends like the UK Gover...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
There is a bit of extra time for members who want to take interventions.15:29
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP)
SNP
I begin my speech by focusing on pillar 2 and how, from a greatly reduced funding pot, it will be made to work to deliver for rural Scotland. By rural Scotla...
David Stewart
Lab
I strongly support the point that the member is making about rural development, but does he share my view that a maximum modulation of 15 per cent from pilla...
Graeme Dey
SNP
I think that there is a balance to be struck in that regard.Within that figure will be people who commute to towns and cities to earn their living but, given...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
It does not seem so long ago that we were gathered here to discuss the common agricultural policy reform proposals, but it has in fact been more than six mon...
Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
SNP
I will start by looking at the Scottish Government’s objectives in the CAP process. As the cabinet secretary has already alluded to, those are to continue to...