Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 03 October 2013
03 Oct 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Common Agricultural Policy
I draw members’ attention to my declaration of interests.
I spent last Saturday—as many of us do at this time of the year—at my local mart, in Lerwick. I heard two clear messages there. There was a third, but it is not important for this debate. The first message was about prices. The cabinet secretary is all too well aware that there is concern, especially in the sheep sector, about what is happening to livestock prices.
The second message, which is more important in the context of today’s debate, was that the Government of the day, and politicians, not see the debate about the future of the CAP through the prism of independence, but through the prism of needs of Scotland’s farmers and crofters. I make that point in the reasonable tone that the cabinet secretary adopted in his opening remarks.
It is surely in all our interests to follow that approach. I say so because since 2001 Scotland’s sheep numbers have fallen by the thick end of 1 million. In 2012, 495 producers across Scotland came out of beef production—there are nearly 500 fewer beef herds in Scotland, out of some 7,000. For any of us, that is surely a worrying and significant trend, so the Government’s admirable food and drink strategy—which I support and which I believe is a genuinely positive aspect of Government activity—is being undermined because the building bricks of food production are being eroded.
That is what the new CAP should be about. Do we want active, financially viable farmers, crofters and growers throughout Scotland? Most of us would answer that in the positive.
As other colleagues have done, I suggest that the Scottish Government needs to take action in some areas. I acknowledge that the cabinet secretary set out some of those in his opening speech. The first is that the consultation that we understand is to be published in December should acknowledge the timescale to which the minister is operating. If, as is usual Government practice, he adopts a three-month consultation period, it will not finish until March. However, as he said in his speech, the timescale for approval of the implementation regulations by the European Commission puts an immense amount of pressure on the Government to have everything in place for 1 January 2015.
As far as I can see, and as a lot of farmers have said to me, if the Government rightly consults on many of the issues, we will not necessarily need to spend as long as we normally do on everything else, especially as the cabinet secretary set out in his opening speech a clear direction of travel on some issues. However, he needs to consult on ensuring that all the options are available to the Government in making the right judgments about how the new area payments system will work.
Coupled beef support to assist suckler cow herds is certainly one of those options, but I do not share Claire Baker’s concerns about the so-called Irish tunnel. The cabinet secretary should consult on that mechanism because of the really strong views about the transition that will take place over the coming six years from the current system to the new one.
For some, a fast drop into a new world will, without a shadow of a doubt, mean 25 per cent to 50 per cent cuts in single farm payments. Therefore, a system that clearly has some favour in Europe and that understands the length of transition that is needed in order for farmers and crofters to adapt to the new system must have some merit in it. I hope and ask that, in his closing speech, the cabinet secretary will acknowledge that that is an option that Scottish agriculture might wish to follow and that, therefore, he will include it in his consultation when it is published later in the year.
The cabinet secretary also acknowledged that moving towards an average payment system based on area might hit some producers—notably, intensive livestock farmers—very hard indeed, and I agree with him. That supports the contention about the Irish tunnel model.
Another area that the consultation that the cabinet secretary is about to publish must surely consider is areas of natural constraint. He mentioned that in his opening speech and I hope that he will clarify the situation for us in his closing speech. My understanding is that the ANC model can be used to help areas such as agriculturally productive islands that face real pressure because of the changes. Orkney, Islay and Tiree are all obvious examples. It would be helpful for the agriculture industry if the cabinet secretary could clarify whether he envisages ANCs being part of the system and, therefore, whether he will ensure that that is in his consultation.
The third aspect concerns the level of the area payments per hectare. I highlighted the decline in livestock numbers throughout Scotland. Many farmers and crofters, including in my Shetland constituency, want a high rate per hectare. As the cabinet secretary pointed out, that has significant issues for others and it is understandable that that would be so.
How the cabinet secretary’s two or three payment areas model fits into the assessment of how individual farmers and crofters will be affected is important. I encourage him—as we did in a debate some months ago—to publish modelling on that. I do not know where the Scottish Government’s modelling has got to, but it would be helpful to the industry to understand what modelling has been done and whether, at this stage, it is able to identify the differences that must already be becoming apparent, were a two or three payment areas system to be followed.
I want to make two other points. First, I very much agree with Alex Fergusson’s point on the balance between pillar 1 and pillar 2 spending. I hope that the cabinet secretary will clarify that in his closing remarks. I share the concern that were the heap of money to be moved across to pillar 2, then the budgetary pressures in pillar 1 in relation to what that would mean for farmers and crofters would be even more significant than they are already likely to be. I know that doing what Alex Fergusson suggested will not make the cabinet secretary any friends in the green non-governmental organisations, but that is the kind of horrible balance that any minister must strike.
My final point is on the mapping penalty regime for individual farms, which I have of course mentioned many times to the cabinet secretary. He has reassured me in the past that the new CAP system will be fairer in that regard. I simply hope that that is the case. I encourage him to keep making the argument on that and to ensure that the Scottish Government, as the responsible Administration for the new CAP, insists to Brussels that we must have a fairer and more proportionate system that will help—or at least not be so unfair to—crofters and farmers, not just in my Shetland constituency but right across the country.
I spent last Saturday—as many of us do at this time of the year—at my local mart, in Lerwick. I heard two clear messages there. There was a third, but it is not important for this debate. The first message was about prices. The cabinet secretary is all too well aware that there is concern, especially in the sheep sector, about what is happening to livestock prices.
The second message, which is more important in the context of today’s debate, was that the Government of the day, and politicians, not see the debate about the future of the CAP through the prism of independence, but through the prism of needs of Scotland’s farmers and crofters. I make that point in the reasonable tone that the cabinet secretary adopted in his opening remarks.
It is surely in all our interests to follow that approach. I say so because since 2001 Scotland’s sheep numbers have fallen by the thick end of 1 million. In 2012, 495 producers across Scotland came out of beef production—there are nearly 500 fewer beef herds in Scotland, out of some 7,000. For any of us, that is surely a worrying and significant trend, so the Government’s admirable food and drink strategy—which I support and which I believe is a genuinely positive aspect of Government activity—is being undermined because the building bricks of food production are being eroded.
That is what the new CAP should be about. Do we want active, financially viable farmers, crofters and growers throughout Scotland? Most of us would answer that in the positive.
As other colleagues have done, I suggest that the Scottish Government needs to take action in some areas. I acknowledge that the cabinet secretary set out some of those in his opening speech. The first is that the consultation that we understand is to be published in December should acknowledge the timescale to which the minister is operating. If, as is usual Government practice, he adopts a three-month consultation period, it will not finish until March. However, as he said in his speech, the timescale for approval of the implementation regulations by the European Commission puts an immense amount of pressure on the Government to have everything in place for 1 January 2015.
As far as I can see, and as a lot of farmers have said to me, if the Government rightly consults on many of the issues, we will not necessarily need to spend as long as we normally do on everything else, especially as the cabinet secretary set out in his opening speech a clear direction of travel on some issues. However, he needs to consult on ensuring that all the options are available to the Government in making the right judgments about how the new area payments system will work.
Coupled beef support to assist suckler cow herds is certainly one of those options, but I do not share Claire Baker’s concerns about the so-called Irish tunnel. The cabinet secretary should consult on that mechanism because of the really strong views about the transition that will take place over the coming six years from the current system to the new one.
For some, a fast drop into a new world will, without a shadow of a doubt, mean 25 per cent to 50 per cent cuts in single farm payments. Therefore, a system that clearly has some favour in Europe and that understands the length of transition that is needed in order for farmers and crofters to adapt to the new system must have some merit in it. I hope and ask that, in his closing speech, the cabinet secretary will acknowledge that that is an option that Scottish agriculture might wish to follow and that, therefore, he will include it in his consultation when it is published later in the year.
The cabinet secretary also acknowledged that moving towards an average payment system based on area might hit some producers—notably, intensive livestock farmers—very hard indeed, and I agree with him. That supports the contention about the Irish tunnel model.
Another area that the consultation that the cabinet secretary is about to publish must surely consider is areas of natural constraint. He mentioned that in his opening speech and I hope that he will clarify the situation for us in his closing speech. My understanding is that the ANC model can be used to help areas such as agriculturally productive islands that face real pressure because of the changes. Orkney, Islay and Tiree are all obvious examples. It would be helpful for the agriculture industry if the cabinet secretary could clarify whether he envisages ANCs being part of the system and, therefore, whether he will ensure that that is in his consultation.
The third aspect concerns the level of the area payments per hectare. I highlighted the decline in livestock numbers throughout Scotland. Many farmers and crofters, including in my Shetland constituency, want a high rate per hectare. As the cabinet secretary pointed out, that has significant issues for others and it is understandable that that would be so.
How the cabinet secretary’s two or three payment areas model fits into the assessment of how individual farmers and crofters will be affected is important. I encourage him—as we did in a debate some months ago—to publish modelling on that. I do not know where the Scottish Government’s modelling has got to, but it would be helpful to the industry to understand what modelling has been done and whether, at this stage, it is able to identify the differences that must already be becoming apparent, were a two or three payment areas system to be followed.
I want to make two other points. First, I very much agree with Alex Fergusson’s point on the balance between pillar 1 and pillar 2 spending. I hope that the cabinet secretary will clarify that in his closing remarks. I share the concern that were the heap of money to be moved across to pillar 2, then the budgetary pressures in pillar 1 in relation to what that would mean for farmers and crofters would be even more significant than they are already likely to be. I know that doing what Alex Fergusson suggested will not make the cabinet secretary any friends in the green non-governmental organisations, but that is the kind of horrible balance that any minister must strike.
My final point is on the mapping penalty regime for individual farms, which I have of course mentioned many times to the cabinet secretary. He has reassured me in the past that the new CAP system will be fairer in that regard. I simply hope that that is the case. I encourage him to keep making the argument on that and to ensure that the Scottish Government, as the responsible Administration for the new CAP, insists to Brussels that we must have a fairer and more proportionate system that will help—or at least not be so unfair to—crofters and farmers, not just in my Shetland constituency but right across the country.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
Good afternoon. The first item of business is a debate on motion S4M-07892, in the name of Richard Lochhead, on the common agricultural policy.
The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment (Richard Lochhead)
SNP
The debate on the common agricultural policy for 2014 to 2020 provides an opportunity for the Government to update Parliament on the state of play in the Eur...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
Has the cabinet secretary approached the UK Government to discuss the possibility of calculating the 8 per cent on the UK’s share rather than just the Scotti...
Richard Lochhead
SNP
Yes we have, and I will talk about that now because this is a key area for Scotland.Unfortunately, our negotiator, Owen Paterson, did not want any coupled su...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
We have heard a lot about the UK Government not batting for Scotland. As I recall, the cabinet secretary was demanding an increase in the budget at the same ...
Richard Lochhead
SNP
I am sure that the member is aware that only 38 per cent of the Europe budget is for CAP. That is one area in which Scotland gets an extremely raw deal. We d...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
This is an opportune time to have a CAP debate, and we should not miss the opportunity to discuss the key issues. I welcome the cabinet secretary’s press rel...
Richard Lochhead
SNP
The figures that Claire Baker has read out illustrate why we have to move from the historical basis for payments to a new basis for payments. That is why we ...
Claire Baker
Lab
I accept that that is the formula that is used, but the story behind it is much more complex. It is not just about providing a fairer formula throughout the ...
The Minister for Environment and Climate Change (Paul Wheelhouse)
SNP
I hope that Claire Baker acknowledges that, if we were an independent member state in our own right, we would have benefited from the new formula in terms of...
Claire Baker
Lab
That is not the situation that we face. The SNP proposes that we go into the EU as a new member state and there are concerns about the negotiations that woul...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Con
This is a debate on which I wish it were possible for the Parliament to speak with one voice. We have often managed to do so on this topic in the past, but I...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD)
LD
I draw members’ attention to my declaration of interests.I spent last Saturday—as many of us do at this time of the year—at my local mart, in Lerwick. I hear...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
We turn to the open debate. Can I have speeches of six minutes, please?15:11
Rob Gibson (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
SNP
There have been some suggestions that we would be better not having a fragmented approach, but the motion and the amendments show that the fragmentation come...
Alex Fergusson
Con
Will Rob Gibson take a brief intervention?
Rob Gibson
SNP
I have hardly started, but I will.
Alex Fergusson
Con
It is better to take interventions early.If what Mr Gibson said about the budget deal is the case, why did the cabinet secretary describe the deal that came ...
Rob Gibson
SNP
The cabinet secretary was talking about the bits that we got into the deal in relation to dealing with active farming, the Scottish clause and so on—that is ...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
President Dwight Eisenhower famously said:“Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you’re a thousand miles from the corn field.”It is of co...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I call Angus MacDonald, to be followed by Graeme Dey. We have a small amount of time in hand for interventions.15:23
Angus MacDonald (Falkirk East) (SNP)
SNP
As we have heard from the cabinet secretary, the long-drawn-out saga of CAP reform is finally reaching a close, with a vote in the European Parliament in mid...
Claire Baker
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Angus MacDonald
SNP
Sorry. I have a lot to get into my six minutes.Ireland gets €70 per hectare, Finland gets €138 and the Czech Republic gets €83.With friends like the UK Gover...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
There is a bit of extra time for members who want to take interventions.15:29
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP)
SNP
I begin my speech by focusing on pillar 2 and how, from a greatly reduced funding pot, it will be made to work to deliver for rural Scotland. By rural Scotla...
David Stewart
Lab
I strongly support the point that the member is making about rural development, but does he share my view that a maximum modulation of 15 per cent from pilla...
Graeme Dey
SNP
I think that there is a balance to be struck in that regard.Within that figure will be people who commute to towns and cities to earn their living but, given...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
It does not seem so long ago that we were gathered here to discuss the common agricultural policy reform proposals, but it has in fact been more than six mon...
Nigel Don (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
SNP
I will start by looking at the Scottish Government’s objectives in the CAP process. As the cabinet secretary has already alluded to, those are to continue to...