Committee
Justice Sub-Committee on Policing 31 October 2013
31 Oct 2013 · S4 · Justice Sub-Committee on Policing
Item of business
Local Policing
Chief Constable House
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Secondly, you have already identified the fact that violent crime in Aberdeen is down 13 per cent. In fact, violent crime across the country is down 13 per cent. There has been an increase in stop and search usage across the country. In some places, it has been a marked increase and in others it has been a relatively modest increase. To put things into perspective, if you take the number of stop and searches that we have done so far this financial year and divide it not by 17,234, which is the total number of police officers, but by the number of officers who have actually carried out stop and search, which is 12,089, the figure that you come up with shows that an officer is doing a stop and search just over once a week, or just over five times a month. Let me make it clear that that is a national average and that we do not standardise, so there are some areas where far more stop and searches are done and some areas where there are far fewer. You will find that there are far more stop and searches in the city centre in Aberdeen, particularly in the evening hours, than you would ever find happening out in Inverurie or somewhere like that, because of the nature of policing and of the crime situation. Aberdeen has a problem with violent crime at night in the city centre, and that needs to be dealt with. Stop and search is one tactic for dealing with that, so there has been an increase in stop and searches, as there has been across the country. To give a specific figure for the Aberdeen division, an average officer will carry out a stop and search 0.4 times a week, so effectively he or she will do one a fortnight.Obviously, there are a number of officers, so a few stop and searches are being done, but I do not see it as an avalanche. Officers carry out stop and search within a legal framework that is clear to them—they understand the law. They also do consensual searches, which is when officers ask to do a search.Across Scotland, we are seeing a significant increase in group 5 crimes, which, typically, are driven by police action. Often, that is stop and search, when weaponry or drugs for personal use are recovered. My view is that there is a linkage: violent crime is coming down partly because we are confronting violence on the street, and part of that is done through stop and search.If you wish to pass on to me complaints about stop and search, I would be interested to receive them, because we want to look at that and to understand the nature of the complaints. We stress to our officers that, first, they must do stop and search with integrity, fairness and respect. They have to have a reason for doing it, and they have to treat people fairly while they do it. There are no targets on stop and search, except one: we are trying to achieve at least 15 per cent positive stop and searches. We are not insisting that people carry out a particular number of stop and searches, but if an officer were to carry out 100 stop and searches—no officer will—we would expect at least 15 of those to find something. The reason to push at that is that it is just above what the national level has been for a few years, and we want to encourage officers to stop and search the right people, rather than do it at random.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
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John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
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Chief Constable Sir Stephen House (Police Scotland)
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John Finnie
Ind
If consultation had taken place at ward level, what you say would have been borne out, because people’s experience is that they generally use the telephone o...
Chief Constable House
When we look back on things, we can always say that maybe we could have done them a little better, but I must defend my organisation and the staff who undert...
The Convener
SNP
I accept what you say about staff, but I think that the question was about the public at large—am I correct?
John Finnie
Ind
Yes—the question was also about the opportunity for engagement that could have arisen.
Chief Constable House
I apologise.
John Finnie
Ind
Apart from hearing that a big bad boy in Glasgow is closing everything, I am being sold the idea that—ironically—this is a good-news story, because across th...
Chief Constable House
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John Finnie
Ind
Has that approach reinforced the idea that the decision is one that is made by someone in Glasgow rather than a decision that is made in a local community’s ...
Chief Constable House
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John Finnie
Ind
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Superintendent Craig Naylor (Police Scotland)
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Chief Constable House
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John Finnie
Ind
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Chief Constable House
Sorry, are you saying that we will keep a place open where it is very quiet?
John Finnie
Ind
It has been suggested to me that if a station remains, surely someone could just chap at the window and whoever is through the back would answer them.
Chief Constable House
Yes. I understand that. Again, policing is about dealing with society and humanity. If the locals know well enough that the cop is in there because they can ...
The Convener
SNP
Margaret Mitchell and Graeme Pearson both want to come in on the issue of police front counters, so we will exhaust that area first.
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Good afternoon, gentlemen. Can I press you a little bit on the consultation itself and on exactly how extensive it was and what methods were used to engage t...
Chief Constable House
We did not engage external consultants to carry out a big, fancy process. We looked at the consultations, work and analysis that had already been done in a n...
Superintendent Naylor
Yes, in four forces.
Chief Constable House
In the four legacy forces where that had not been done, we commissioned some up-to-date work. However, I do not want people to get carried away about the wor...
Margaret Mitchell
Con
I will just stop you there, chief constable. I think that you are talking about the review; I am asking about how widespread the public consultation was.As I...
Chief Constable House
Again, we are still in that consultation process because it has not—
Margaret Mitchell
Con
It closes today.
Chief Constable House
Yes, it closes today.
Margaret Mitchell
Con
So how has Police Scotland engaged with the public in the consultation?
Chief Constable House
As you suggested, we got a certain amount of newspaper and media coverage. I have done a large number of media interviews about the consultation, and we have...