Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 10 December 2013
10 Dec 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Human Rights
It is particularly important that we are debating Scotland’s first human rights action plan on international human rights day and the day on which we remember Nelson Mandela—although I am sure that we will always remember him. He said:
“As long as women are bound by poverty and as long as they are looked down upon, human rights will lack substance.”
He was addressing the pervasive gender inequality and oppression that is one of the two most widespread human rights abuses throughout the world. The other abuse that he referred to is poverty, and in other contexts he would have emphasised the poverty of men as well as the poverty of women.
Kofi Annan, the former secretary-general of the United Nations, narrowed it down further when he said that violence against women and girls is
“perhaps the most pervasive violation of human rights across the globe”.
I had intended to talk about that in the debate but, a few minutes before the debate, I discovered that we are belatedly going to have a debate on violence against women next week, so I will make just two summary points on that.
First, four significant points are made in the action plan about violence against women. It states that additional measures to tackle human trafficking are required and that legal protection is disparate, so we need to consider several issues around that. The plan says that domestic abuse courts
“should be replicated, with appropriate support”;
that is an important recommendation. It also reflects on concerns about access to legal aid for those seeking remedies for domestic abuse. That is an important part of the action plan.
Secondly, I briefly back up what Jenny Marra said. She has been a passionate and empathetic campaigner on the issue of female genital mutilation, as on other issues, and she was quite right to highlight the omission of that issue from the plan. It emphasises a more general point about human rights. There has been no greater supporter of multiculturalism than me when multiculturalism has been under attack from many people in the UK, but we should remember that human rights always trump multiculturalism. Even if female genital mutilation or some other human rights abuse is accepted in some cultures, that does not make it right. We must always remember that human rights come first.
I mentioned poverty. Article 25(1) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that
“Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family”,
although it should say “himself or herself”. Interestingly, the ECHR does not include a specific right to a minimum standard of living, which might be—actually, I am sure that it is—a weakness of that convention. I am glad that the action plan has interesting actions and recommendations on that issue, including on a human rights action group on standard of living, which will involve the Scottish Trades Union Congress and others. That is an important development. There are lots of other interesting suggestions, such as that on a human rights-based approach to taxation. I look forward to the conclusions on that.
I have one minute to go in my speech, and I have a lot to cover. Health and social care has come up in the context of the Public Bodies (Joint Working) (Scotland) Bill. It is good to see a human rights approach being recommended on that, particularly the idea of independent living being a basic human right for disabled people. There is an interesting reference to health inequalities being seen through the human rights lens, which is another fruitful angle.
I have 30 seconds left. The tricky area is that of human rights and justice issues. Of course we need more emphasis on victims, and we will come back to that issue on Thursday, but the accused has rights, too. I welcome the fact that reforms had to be introduced as a result of the Cadder case. Alex Johnstone mentioned the most difficult area, which is the human rights of people in prison. They rightly have certain rights taken away, but they also have certain rights that should be preserved. We need more debate and discussion on that, but it is not an argument for abolishing the Human Rights Act 1998. It is important—this is my final sentence—that fundamental human rights are embedded in law, but we must act on them, and I hope that the action plan will help us to do that.
15:11
“As long as women are bound by poverty and as long as they are looked down upon, human rights will lack substance.”
He was addressing the pervasive gender inequality and oppression that is one of the two most widespread human rights abuses throughout the world. The other abuse that he referred to is poverty, and in other contexts he would have emphasised the poverty of men as well as the poverty of women.
Kofi Annan, the former secretary-general of the United Nations, narrowed it down further when he said that violence against women and girls is
“perhaps the most pervasive violation of human rights across the globe”.
I had intended to talk about that in the debate but, a few minutes before the debate, I discovered that we are belatedly going to have a debate on violence against women next week, so I will make just two summary points on that.
First, four significant points are made in the action plan about violence against women. It states that additional measures to tackle human trafficking are required and that legal protection is disparate, so we need to consider several issues around that. The plan says that domestic abuse courts
“should be replicated, with appropriate support”;
that is an important recommendation. It also reflects on concerns about access to legal aid for those seeking remedies for domestic abuse. That is an important part of the action plan.
Secondly, I briefly back up what Jenny Marra said. She has been a passionate and empathetic campaigner on the issue of female genital mutilation, as on other issues, and she was quite right to highlight the omission of that issue from the plan. It emphasises a more general point about human rights. There has been no greater supporter of multiculturalism than me when multiculturalism has been under attack from many people in the UK, but we should remember that human rights always trump multiculturalism. Even if female genital mutilation or some other human rights abuse is accepted in some cultures, that does not make it right. We must always remember that human rights come first.
I mentioned poverty. Article 25(1) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that
“Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family”,
although it should say “himself or herself”. Interestingly, the ECHR does not include a specific right to a minimum standard of living, which might be—actually, I am sure that it is—a weakness of that convention. I am glad that the action plan has interesting actions and recommendations on that issue, including on a human rights action group on standard of living, which will involve the Scottish Trades Union Congress and others. That is an important development. There are lots of other interesting suggestions, such as that on a human rights-based approach to taxation. I look forward to the conclusions on that.
I have one minute to go in my speech, and I have a lot to cover. Health and social care has come up in the context of the Public Bodies (Joint Working) (Scotland) Bill. It is good to see a human rights approach being recommended on that, particularly the idea of independent living being a basic human right for disabled people. There is an interesting reference to health inequalities being seen through the human rights lens, which is another fruitful angle.
I have 30 seconds left. The tricky area is that of human rights and justice issues. Of course we need more emphasis on victims, and we will come back to that issue on Thursday, but the accused has rights, too. I welcome the fact that reforms had to be introduced as a result of the Cadder case. Alex Johnstone mentioned the most difficult area, which is the human rights of people in prison. They rightly have certain rights taken away, but they also have certain rights that should be preserved. We need more debate and discussion on that, but it is not an argument for abolishing the Human Rights Act 1998. It is important—this is my final sentence—that fundamental human rights are embedded in law, but we must act on them, and I hope that the action plan will help us to do that.
15:11
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-08544, in the name of Roseanna Cunningham, on human rights.14:38
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Roseanna Cunningham)
SNP
Today marks the launch of “Scotland’s National Action Plan for Human Rights: 2013-2017”—Scotland’s first national action plan for human rights—and I am delig...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I ask the minister for clarification on that point. Would an independent Scotland take the Human Rights Act 1998 and embed it in the Scottish constitution or...
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
We would be looking at exactly the kinds of rights that most countries in Europe and the wider world regard as human rights. I do not want to disappoint Jenn...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
SNP
Would the minister care to commend Mary Robinson—who is a former President of a small country: Ireland—for her significant contribution to human rights in re...
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
I am sure that Stewart Stevenson would expect me to endorse that, as I have met Mary Robinson and know the huge impact that she had internationally—not just ...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
It is particularly appropriate that we gather in the chamber today on international human rights day, and on a day that is marked by such a momentous occasio...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
I thank Jenny Marra for taking an intervention. I know of her interest in the subject. When I was a member of the Equal Opportunities Committee we inquired i...
Jenny Marra
Lab
I got the numbers from the Minister for Public Health, Michael Matheson, who said just a few weeks ago in the chamber that 3,000 women are at risk in Scotlan...
Jean Urquhart (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
I think that everybody will agree with what Jenny Marra said about the crime that she has described. However, forced marriages are still happening in Scotlan...
Jenny Marra
Lab
Presiding Officer, can I have a little more time to address that?
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I will tell you when you should stop.
Jenny Marra
Lab
Thank you.We have lodged our amendment because I do not believe that FGM is specifically mentioned in the human rights strategy and, given recent press repor...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I welcome the publication of the national action plan for human rights. There is certainly a strong element of consensus on the topic across the chamber and—...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
About 15 years ago, the Northern Constabulary issued a book to young people about knowing your rights when dealing with the police. Is it not a positive thin...
Alex Johnstone
Con
It is, of course, positive that that sort of thing happens, but we must remember that we have to take the public along with us. If we concentrate merely on t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
Conclude, please, Mr Johnstone.
Alex Johnstone
Con
As we come to the end of the opening speeches, I look forward to an in-depth discussion about the action plan, and to summing up at the end of the debate.15:03
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
SNP
It is right to have the debate on this, the 65th anniversary of the signing of “The Universal Declaration of Human Rights”. As the minister said, it is appos...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
It is particularly important that we are debating Scotland’s first human rights action plan on international human rights day and the day on which we remembe...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
I join colleagues in celebrating international human rights day and in welcoming the publication of Scotland’s national action plan on human rights. I pay tr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I remind members to use full names when they are referring to colleagues.15:15
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
First, I congratulate the Scottish Human Rights Commission on the publication of its national action plan. It is significant that it had Scottish Government ...
Alex Johnstone
Con
It should be made clear that in what has been an interesting if short debate we will not have time to raise a number of points. Nevertheless, as John Finnie ...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to close for Scottish Labour in this short but important debate on Scotland’s national action plan for human rights and concur with members’ com...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Before I call Roseanna Cunningham to respond to the debate, I advise members that this afternoon’s debates are on a follow-on basis. I remind members who wis...
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
It is amazing how wide a variety of views can be encompassed even in a short debate such as this. Practically all the speeches have been constructive in addr...
Jenny Marra
Lab
Will the minister commit to voting tonight for a strategy on female genital mutilation?
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
I will come to the Labour amendment later in my speech.The Government has enjoyed a productive, constructive relationship with the commission on a wide range...
Malcolm Chisholm
Lab
I am very sorry to hear what the minister is saying. Does she understand that Jenny Marra’s addendum accepts all the wording of the minister’s motion, but th...