Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 10 September 2013
10 Sep 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Historic Environment Strategy
I am pleased to speak in today’s debate on Scotland’s historic environment. I will spend some time highlighting Fife’s assets as an illustration of Scotland’s historic environment and the challenges that we face in ensuring a legacy for future generations.
First, however, I will make some comments about the historic environment strategy. Last week, the legislative programme brought forward the proposed merger of RCAHMS and Historic Scotland. There will need to be robust scrutiny of the merger. National Museums Scotland has raised some concerns about the collections, and there are questions to be answered on preserving expertise and on funding.
As my colleague, Patricia Ferguson, said, charitable status could lead to competition for limited funds. Charities such as Archaeology Scotland already do a great deal of work on community engagement through schemes such as the highly successful adopt a monument programme. September is Scottish archaeology month, with events across Scotland being staged by volunteers and professionals to showcase local action and knowledge. It would be a concern if the proposed merger threatened the viability of some smaller organisations.
The consultation on the strategy is vital. As we have seen with other examples, such as the recent biodiversity strategy, consultation provides the opportunity for debate and improvement. However, the current draft strategy seems to suffer from issues that are similar to those about which concerns were expressed at the start of the biodiversity strategy process. The concerns are that the draft strategy is too ambiguous and vague and that there is a need for greater direction, clearer priorities and better focus—for a detailed action plan rather than a commitment.
As the consultation document recognises, the care and promotion of Scotland’s historic environment are broad responsibilities, and the need for a clear strategy that sets the future path is important. The strategy can send a clear signal of the value and the importance that we all place on this resource, but it also needs to be supported, in our policy making as well as financially.
Care of the historic environment is often underresourced and, in the current financial climate, is vulnerable. I welcome the document’s recognition of that, but we are still a bit short on answers. We also have to be realistic about some of the challenges. The natural environment is not static and, in addition, we have the challenges that are presented by climate change, which the document recognises.
When Parliament passed the Climate Change (Scotland) Act 2009, it recognised the threat of future coastal erosion. Climate adaptation measures are essential to the maintenance of our historic environment. It is important that any strategy that highlights our environment, whether historic or otherwise, plays its part in achieving our climate change targets.
That illustrates how important it is that the Scottish Government ensures that tackling climate change is a priority of all Cabinet members. The recently finalised report on proposals and policies 2 was met with a degree of disappointment and a lack of confidence. However, although the Scottish Government’s draft strategy highlights the threat of climate change to our historic landscapes, particularly in our coastal regions, it does not fully recognise that Scotland has failed to meet its first two annual targets on emissions, nor does it offer a strategy for how we can contribute towards reversing that trend. If we continue along that path and fail to achieve the step change that is needed, the strategy will struggle to succeed.
Scotland’s historic environment has the potential to contribute more to Scotland’s economy and communities. In many cases, visitor numbers have increased, and tourism plays a significant role in our economy. Last week, I was at a Scottish Council for Development and Industry event that emphasised the importance of natural Scotland to our economy, in terms of not just visitor numbers but our environmental wellbeing, and the increasing attraction of our natural environment as a sympathetic business location. When we look at future economic drivers and areas where we can envision growth, we can see that there is often a clear advantage in having a clean, diverse and attractive environment, and our historical environment has a role to play in that regard.
We are talking about a partnership of the public, private and voluntary sectors as well as private owners, a fact that is recognised by the document and which presents some challenges. The Wemyss caves in Fife are an example of the type of challenge that we are facing. The caves should be recognised as being of national importance. They are designated as a single scheduled monument, but they illustrate the complex ownership and responsibility issues that are often faced. They are located on the Wemyss estate, so they are in private ownership. Fife Council has been the lead financing body over recent years, but that has had its challenges. The caves have been vulnerable to vandalism, neglect and coastal erosion, which have compromised the quality of the caves and the drawings.
That part of Fife’s coast is experiencing considerable coastal erosion. We have lost 30m of the coastline since 1974. As the cabinet secretary recognised in her response to a parliamentary question, the protection and management of coastal areas is Fife Council’s responsibility. However, coastal erosion is a difficult and complex issue, and no practical and cost-effective solution has been found to date. Although there has been engagement with Historic Scotland over the years, responsibility has largely rested with Fife Council, and we need to recognise the financial limitations for local authorities in carrying the full responsibility for some of these sites.
First, however, I will make some comments about the historic environment strategy. Last week, the legislative programme brought forward the proposed merger of RCAHMS and Historic Scotland. There will need to be robust scrutiny of the merger. National Museums Scotland has raised some concerns about the collections, and there are questions to be answered on preserving expertise and on funding.
As my colleague, Patricia Ferguson, said, charitable status could lead to competition for limited funds. Charities such as Archaeology Scotland already do a great deal of work on community engagement through schemes such as the highly successful adopt a monument programme. September is Scottish archaeology month, with events across Scotland being staged by volunteers and professionals to showcase local action and knowledge. It would be a concern if the proposed merger threatened the viability of some smaller organisations.
The consultation on the strategy is vital. As we have seen with other examples, such as the recent biodiversity strategy, consultation provides the opportunity for debate and improvement. However, the current draft strategy seems to suffer from issues that are similar to those about which concerns were expressed at the start of the biodiversity strategy process. The concerns are that the draft strategy is too ambiguous and vague and that there is a need for greater direction, clearer priorities and better focus—for a detailed action plan rather than a commitment.
As the consultation document recognises, the care and promotion of Scotland’s historic environment are broad responsibilities, and the need for a clear strategy that sets the future path is important. The strategy can send a clear signal of the value and the importance that we all place on this resource, but it also needs to be supported, in our policy making as well as financially.
Care of the historic environment is often underresourced and, in the current financial climate, is vulnerable. I welcome the document’s recognition of that, but we are still a bit short on answers. We also have to be realistic about some of the challenges. The natural environment is not static and, in addition, we have the challenges that are presented by climate change, which the document recognises.
When Parliament passed the Climate Change (Scotland) Act 2009, it recognised the threat of future coastal erosion. Climate adaptation measures are essential to the maintenance of our historic environment. It is important that any strategy that highlights our environment, whether historic or otherwise, plays its part in achieving our climate change targets.
That illustrates how important it is that the Scottish Government ensures that tackling climate change is a priority of all Cabinet members. The recently finalised report on proposals and policies 2 was met with a degree of disappointment and a lack of confidence. However, although the Scottish Government’s draft strategy highlights the threat of climate change to our historic landscapes, particularly in our coastal regions, it does not fully recognise that Scotland has failed to meet its first two annual targets on emissions, nor does it offer a strategy for how we can contribute towards reversing that trend. If we continue along that path and fail to achieve the step change that is needed, the strategy will struggle to succeed.
Scotland’s historic environment has the potential to contribute more to Scotland’s economy and communities. In many cases, visitor numbers have increased, and tourism plays a significant role in our economy. Last week, I was at a Scottish Council for Development and Industry event that emphasised the importance of natural Scotland to our economy, in terms of not just visitor numbers but our environmental wellbeing, and the increasing attraction of our natural environment as a sympathetic business location. When we look at future economic drivers and areas where we can envision growth, we can see that there is often a clear advantage in having a clean, diverse and attractive environment, and our historical environment has a role to play in that regard.
We are talking about a partnership of the public, private and voluntary sectors as well as private owners, a fact that is recognised by the document and which presents some challenges. The Wemyss caves in Fife are an example of the type of challenge that we are facing. The caves should be recognised as being of national importance. They are designated as a single scheduled monument, but they illustrate the complex ownership and responsibility issues that are often faced. They are located on the Wemyss estate, so they are in private ownership. Fife Council has been the lead financing body over recent years, but that has had its challenges. The caves have been vulnerable to vandalism, neglect and coastal erosion, which have compromised the quality of the caves and the drawings.
That part of Fife’s coast is experiencing considerable coastal erosion. We have lost 30m of the coastline since 1974. As the cabinet secretary recognised in her response to a parliamentary question, the protection and management of coastal areas is Fife Council’s responsibility. However, coastal erosion is a difficult and complex issue, and no practical and cost-effective solution has been found to date. Although there has been engagement with Historic Scotland over the years, responsibility has largely rested with Fife Council, and we need to recognise the financial limitations for local authorities in carrying the full responsibility for some of these sites.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-07622, in the name of Fiona Hyslop, on Scotland’s historic environment—the way forward.14:24
The Cabinet Secretary for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)
SNP
I would like to start with a quote from “A Herbal” by the late Seamus Heaney:As between clear blue and cloud,Between haystack and sunset sky,Between oak tree...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Given the impact of climate change and the increasing cost of repairing and maintaining the historic tenements in our cities, will the minister review the op...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I hear what the member says—I think that she makes an extremely important point. A great deal of investment has to take place in the pre-1919 buildings. That...
Hanzala Malik (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
I was just wondering whether the minister was going to make a statement in terms of an increase in the budget, particularly since the Commonwealth games are ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I remind members to speak through the chair.
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I am sure that Sandra White welcomed the investment in the statues on the Kelvin walkway. As the member well knows, a substantial investment was announced in...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I remind members that, if they are participating in the debate, they should be in the chamber for the start of the speeches.14:41
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab)
Lab
In opening the debate for Labour, I endorse the cabinet secretary’s sentiments concerning John Bellany. He will be sadly missed, but he has left a significan...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I am sure that, as the bill passes through Parliament, we will have plenty of opportunities in committee and in the chamber to debate some of these issues, b...
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
I am sure that that is true. Having read some of the commentary, I have understood what the organisations have said, but there is still a kernel of doubt lin...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I cannot talk about the budget tomorrow, but I can reassure the member that over the last period, between 2011-12 and 2013-14, expenditure on properties and ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
You are approaching your last minute, Ms Ferguson.
Patricia Ferguson
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer.I appreciate that point and I accept that the historic environment is a very expensive sector in which to work and operate. Howe...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I thank the cabinet secretary for her good wishes—and Patricia Ferguson for hers, just prior to the debate. Culture is very close to my heart—not least becau...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
Only last night in Linlithgow, I heard a fantastic presentation by one of our local historians, Bruce Jamieson, about Linlithgow’s connection to James IV. In...
Liz Smith
Con
I thank the cabinet secretary for that intervention. Clearly, we could go on listing the other sites for which fantastic numbers have been announced recently...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
On the merger, there is some way to travel in terms of parliamentary scrutiny, but it is important that we put the staff first. Over a long period, the staff...
Liz Smith
Con
The cabinet secretary makes a fair point. There has been some support for the merger in various quarters, but Patricia Ferguson made some good points about t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
We turn to the open debate, with speeches of a maximum of seven minutes, which should include any interventions.15:02
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP)
SNP
There is no denying just how blessed visually we are here in Scotland. We are blessed with breathtaking scenery and with the historic environment. We owe so ...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
The member makes an important point. We have supported long-distance travel for visits from places that are an hour and a half’s travel from some of our key ...
Graeme Dey
SNP
I absolutely agree with that.In passing, I recognise the tremendous work that Historic Scotland is doing to retain and safeguard the traditional skills that ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I must keep members strictly to their seven minutes. I call Claire Baker, to be followed by Joan McAlpine.15:09
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I am pleased to speak in today’s debate on Scotland’s historic environment. I will spend some time highlighting Fife’s assets as an illustration of Scotland’...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I am delighted to have accepted an invitation from David Torrance MSP to visit Wemyss caves. That visit will happen in the next couple of weeks.The issue has...
Claire Baker
Lab
I was aware of the cabinet secretary’s upcoming visit and was about to give it a positive mention.Earlier, the cabinet secretary talked a bit about active ci...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I remind members that they must keep to their seven minutes, or other speakers later in the debate will lose time. 15:16
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the Government’s ambitious strategy for Scotland’s historic environment over the next 10 to 15 years. I am delighted that we have the opportunity t...
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
SNP
Voltaire famously said,“We look to Scotland for all our ideas of civilisation”,and we can see why when we look at the extraordinary historic environment from...