Committee
Enterprise and Culture Committee, 16 Jan 2007
16 Jan 2007 · S2 · Enterprise and Culture Committee
Item of business
“Growing older and wiser together—A futures view on positive ageing”
The report is fascinating and I would like to pick up on many issues. I wonder whether the point that was made is just a question of perception. People may feel cheated—they have worked and paid into a pension scheme on the assumption that they would retire at one point, then they are presented all of a sudden with the possibility that they might need to work longer. That perception could easily be overcome.I will pick up on the language that we use to talk about age and retirement. Could we begin to talk about phases of our lives? Before I was elected in 2003, I was expecting to slow down and begin to do things for myself, because my children had almost finished attending university. All of a sudden, I was bounced into the job of an MSP unexpectedly—no, not unexpectedly. I do not believe the amount of energy that I did not realise that I would have to do the job and how stimulating the job is. If we can remove the perception that, on retirement, people stop what they are doing, we can think of it as a phase in which we move away from the phase of work that we have done for two or three decades. Retirement provides the opportunity to move into a different phase. That is what the report says. Part-time work and voluntary work can all slot in happily and be acknowledged as positives for us.I will raise two other issues. How will the report influence education at school? We need to rethink our lifespan of working, so we need much more flexibility in how we educate our children to take on board whatever comes at them. We have moved away from the idea of a job for life. Planning and design are also involved—I was fascinated by the idea of co-housing and lifetime homes.All such ideas need to be taken on board. As a member of the Equal Opportunities Committee, I have worked with disabled people, who argue that a home needs to be designed to accommodate the possibility that we might need a wheelchair or aids if we want to stay in that home. The home needs to be designed to be flexible. We need to start considering all those fascinating aspects of the issue. There is a gap in the scenario, which is the omission of environmental change—climate change. How we move to a low-carbon economy and, as we explore what that really means, how that economy will impact on skills and on how we are going to live our lives in smaller communities need to be explored. We might need to revisit and use the skills of older people, particularly the skills that they used to have but that have been lost. There is also the matter of how the global impact of climate change will influence population movements. We might not need to worry so much about not having the younger generation coming on, because inward migration will be vital as some areas become less habitable—I am looking two to five decades ahead. It is fascinating how, if we start this conversation now, we can prepare ourselves for all sorts of scenarios. The climate change scenario needs to be included and to be taken on board, because it will have a huge impact.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Alex Neil):
SNP
It is 2 o'clock and most members who will attend the meeting are here, so I welcome everybody to the Enterprise and Culture Committee's second meeting in 200...
Christine May (Central Fife) (Lab):
Lab
Can we debate that?
The Convener:
SNP
Perhaps I should declare an interest as a person who is rapidly aging, too.I welcome Lord Sutherland and ask him to say a few words of introduction.
Lord Sutherland of Houndwood (Scotland's Futures Forum Aging Project Board):
I noted that you are a director of the futures forum, convener, and I hold that to your credit rather than hold you to account for it. I welcome the opportun...
Christine May:
Lab
Only among the deserving.
Lord Sutherland:
There is an optimist. I like optimism in politicians; it is very important.The methods that were used by those who carried out the work under Robert Rae's di...
The Convener:
SNP
Thank you very much indeed. That was excellent. The purpose of these round-table discussions at the Enterprise and Culture Committee is to identify some of t...
Lord Sutherland:
The report did not focus on that in detail, so there is no special set of research evidence, but I am happy to give you my tuppenceworth if you want. I chair...
The Convener:
SNP
The committee's remit includes science policy, so that is highly relevant.
Susan Deacon (Edinburgh East and Musselburgh) (Lab):
Lab
Are we moving seamlessly on to the round-table discussion?
The Convener:
SNP
Yes.
Susan Deacon:
Lab
I want to pick up where the convener left off, not by asking a question, but by commenting on the thinking behind the report. The report is extremely helpful...
The Convener:
SNP
That is a good issue on which to broaden out the discussion. I will come back to Stewart Sutherland in a minute, but I should now introduce all the other par...
Lord Sutherland:
I will be quick. We did not set out to analyse in detail some of the additional costs because, as Susan Deacon said, much of that work has been done and ther...
The Convener:
SNP
Does anyone else want to respond? I cannot believe that David Manion does not want to.
David Manion (Age Concern Scotland):
I am the chief executive of Age Concern Scotland. It is a great pity that Professor Phil Hanlon is not with us to provide his insights on public health-relat...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
My question follows on quite neatly from Susan Deacon's question on costs. The idea that an aging population will be a problem for the Chancellor of the Exch...
The Convener:
SNP
We should also distinguish between the retirement age and the pension age, which are not necessarily the same thing.
Tara Brady (B&Q plc):
As the employment relations and diversity manager for B&Q, I guess that I come from a very pro place. We believe that there are significant commercial benefi...
Christine May:
Lab
Could I pick up on something on page 16 of the report? Lord Sutherland referred to intergenerational well-being and the need for older people to mentor young...
Tara Brady:
A related question that I am often asked is how our older employees feel when they are managed by somebody younger. It is a common stereotype that it is a go...
The Convener:
SNP
A former boss of mine used to say, "Age doesn't make you a sage. It just makes you an old man."
David Manion:
I would like to say something about future costs. If we do not do something, the costs will be even worse, and it is the cost of not doing something that we ...
Christine May:
Lab
That is an extremely interesting point and I suspect that some of my colleagues will pick it up, but I will focus for one more moment on mentoring.In a schem...
Lord Sutherland:
Absolutely. We should look for such examples of good practice and, where appropriate, replicate them. It is not easy for people to move into the workforce, e...
Ian Naismith (Scottish Widows):
I am the head of pensions market development at Scottish Widows. We have examined employer attitudes and health. One aspect that we have examined closely is ...
The Convener:
SNP
Is part of that the fact that in many parts of Scotland—particularly parts of Glasgow—male life expectancy might be 58 or 63, so men in those areas cannot ex...
Ian Naismith:
Yes—that is probably an element. We did not examine cities specifically, but we did not find appreciable differences across the salary range on the age to wh...
Shiona Baird (North East Scotland) (Green):
Green
The report is fascinating and I would like to pick up on many issues. I wonder whether the point that was made is just a question of perception. People may f...
The Convener:
SNP
I will bring in Linda Boyes at this stage, as the Scottish Council Foundation has probably considered some of those points. I will then invite Fiona Hird, fr...