Committee
Enterprise and Culture Committee, 16 Jan 2007
16 Jan 2007 · S2 · Enterprise and Culture Committee
Item of business
“Growing older and wiser together—A futures view on positive ageing”
Lord Sutherland:
Watch on SPTV
Absolutely. We should look for such examples of good practice and, where appropriate, replicate them. It is not easy for people to move into the workforce, especially if they were previously jolted out of it. It is not easy for them psychologically or socially, and it is not even easy for them just to get onto the lists, so mentoring is critical.Of course, mentoring is a two-way process. Anybody under 25 could teach any of us a huge amount about living in a digital world. The boy scouts' bob-a-job week used to be about gardening and so on, but perhaps it is now about showing people how to work their video. Sorry—that is out of date. I mean their DVD.I have a specific suggestion. Digitalisation is coming to television. It will start where I live, in the Borders, which is the trial area. It will give us a marvellous opportunity, because people who have not had to engage with the wider electronic world will be able to engage in it. They will have to learn new techniques. Why are we not looking at enterprise and mentoring schemes whereby a contact will go into every home and give people instruction on how to digitalise? In due course, television will provide access to the web for most people. How can we use that to take skills into areas of the population that find things difficult? That is a specific opportunity.On the point about incentives to employ older people, the biggest incentive, in due course, will be the fact that employers cannot find enough people to do the jobs that need to be done. Boy, will that have an effect. It is not the best incentive, but it will have an effect. In the meantime, all sorts of things could be done. There could be more detailed study of the use of tax and national insurance as incentives. There are funny rules about who pays and who does not. If someone stops paying national insurance because they have reached a certain age, their employer will stop making contributions as well. That is an incentive.The mix of pension and paid employment is another incentive. There is some experience of that in the university sector. We learned how to mix the two in the late 1980s and early 1990s, when the cuts came. There are ways in which one can mix pension and part-time employment that will provide real incentives and we will get just as much out of people.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Alex Neil):
SNP
It is 2 o'clock and most members who will attend the meeting are here, so I welcome everybody to the Enterprise and Culture Committee's second meeting in 200...
Christine May (Central Fife) (Lab):
Lab
Can we debate that?
The Convener:
SNP
Perhaps I should declare an interest as a person who is rapidly aging, too.I welcome Lord Sutherland and ask him to say a few words of introduction.
Lord Sutherland of Houndwood (Scotland's Futures Forum Aging Project Board):
I noted that you are a director of the futures forum, convener, and I hold that to your credit rather than hold you to account for it. I welcome the opportun...
Christine May:
Lab
Only among the deserving.
Lord Sutherland:
There is an optimist. I like optimism in politicians; it is very important.The methods that were used by those who carried out the work under Robert Rae's di...
The Convener:
SNP
Thank you very much indeed. That was excellent. The purpose of these round-table discussions at the Enterprise and Culture Committee is to identify some of t...
Lord Sutherland:
The report did not focus on that in detail, so there is no special set of research evidence, but I am happy to give you my tuppenceworth if you want. I chair...
The Convener:
SNP
The committee's remit includes science policy, so that is highly relevant.
Susan Deacon (Edinburgh East and Musselburgh) (Lab):
Lab
Are we moving seamlessly on to the round-table discussion?
The Convener:
SNP
Yes.
Susan Deacon:
Lab
I want to pick up where the convener left off, not by asking a question, but by commenting on the thinking behind the report. The report is extremely helpful...
The Convener:
SNP
That is a good issue on which to broaden out the discussion. I will come back to Stewart Sutherland in a minute, but I should now introduce all the other par...
Lord Sutherland:
I will be quick. We did not set out to analyse in detail some of the additional costs because, as Susan Deacon said, much of that work has been done and ther...
The Convener:
SNP
Does anyone else want to respond? I cannot believe that David Manion does not want to.
David Manion (Age Concern Scotland):
I am the chief executive of Age Concern Scotland. It is a great pity that Professor Phil Hanlon is not with us to provide his insights on public health-relat...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
My question follows on quite neatly from Susan Deacon's question on costs. The idea that an aging population will be a problem for the Chancellor of the Exch...
The Convener:
SNP
We should also distinguish between the retirement age and the pension age, which are not necessarily the same thing.
Tara Brady (B&Q plc):
As the employment relations and diversity manager for B&Q, I guess that I come from a very pro place. We believe that there are significant commercial benefi...
Christine May:
Lab
Could I pick up on something on page 16 of the report? Lord Sutherland referred to intergenerational well-being and the need for older people to mentor young...
Tara Brady:
A related question that I am often asked is how our older employees feel when they are managed by somebody younger. It is a common stereotype that it is a go...
The Convener:
SNP
A former boss of mine used to say, "Age doesn't make you a sage. It just makes you an old man."
David Manion:
I would like to say something about future costs. If we do not do something, the costs will be even worse, and it is the cost of not doing something that we ...
Christine May:
Lab
That is an extremely interesting point and I suspect that some of my colleagues will pick it up, but I will focus for one more moment on mentoring.In a schem...
Lord Sutherland:
Absolutely. We should look for such examples of good practice and, where appropriate, replicate them. It is not easy for people to move into the workforce, e...
Ian Naismith (Scottish Widows):
I am the head of pensions market development at Scottish Widows. We have examined employer attitudes and health. One aspect that we have examined closely is ...
The Convener:
SNP
Is part of that the fact that in many parts of Scotland—particularly parts of Glasgow—male life expectancy might be 58 or 63, so men in those areas cannot ex...
Ian Naismith:
Yes—that is probably an element. We did not examine cities specifically, but we did not find appreciable differences across the salary range on the age to wh...
Shiona Baird (North East Scotland) (Green):
Green
The report is fascinating and I would like to pick up on many issues. I wonder whether the point that was made is just a question of perception. People may f...
The Convener:
SNP
I will bring in Linda Boyes at this stage, as the Scottish Council Foundation has probably considered some of those points. I will then invite Fiona Hird, fr...