Committee
Enterprise and Culture Committee, 16 Jan 2007
16 Jan 2007 · S2 · Enterprise and Culture Committee
Item of business
“Growing older and wiser together—A futures view on positive ageing”
David Manion:
Watch on SPTV
I would like to say something about future costs. If we do not do something, the costs will be even worse, and it is the cost of not doing something that we should be most concerned about.I draw your attention to page 14 of the report, where there is a quotation from Professor Mike Danson. He says that"age discrimination against older workers appears deeply embedded in the cultures, policies and practices of some organisations and industries."I would like to talk a little about what that means in practice for a great many older people now, and what it might mean in the future. According to research that we have undertaken, and according to research by the Department for Work and Pensions back in 2001, nine out of 10 people between the age of 50 and state pension age thought that they were likely to be discriminated against on the ground of their age while in employment. Research from Age Concern demonstrates that age discrimination is the form of discrimination experienced by more people in the United Kingdom than any other, and it comes to its peak in the employment field, which is presumably why there has been legislation on discrimination in employment. What will happen to people over 50 is an extremely important issue. Some figures for the levels of economic inactivity in various areas of Scotland for those aged between 50 and 64 will give you an inkling of what I am talking about. In Glasgow, the level of economic inactivity for people in that age group is 42.3 per cent. In East Ayrshire it is 37.6 per cent, in Inverclyde it is 36.2 per cent, and in North Lanarkshire it is 38.6 per cent. That does not include those who are officially registered as unemployed. We are talking about large numbers of people over the age of 50 who may have left the employment market for one reason or another and who have been unable to re-enter it. If practical things are to be done, we ought perhaps to be looking at how we can give those people intensive help to re-enter the labour market, and how we can plan to enable that group of people between the ages of 50 and 64 to start up their own businesses. People over the age of 50 are some eight times more likely to succeed in small and medium-sized enterprises. When people are made redundant and they try to re-enter the employment market, they need to rebuild their confidence, and starting up their own business gives them flexibility in their employment that they might not have otherwise.There is a correlation between the attitudes that we display to the employment of older people and how we plan to employ older people in the future. If we express positive attitudes now, people will not end up in the situation in which the over-50s find themselves at present. More support will be given to that age cohort and they will have a rosier future. That relates to the costs that we will face if we do not act now. Of people who come out of employment when they are over 50, only one in 10 will get back into the labour market. If we do not start to act on that now, I dread to think what the cost will be.Scottish Enterprise and the associated agencies should be asked what they are doing proactively to help people who are aged between 50 and the state pension age to get back into the labour market.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Alex Neil):
SNP
It is 2 o'clock and most members who will attend the meeting are here, so I welcome everybody to the Enterprise and Culture Committee's second meeting in 200...
Christine May (Central Fife) (Lab):
Lab
Can we debate that?
The Convener:
SNP
Perhaps I should declare an interest as a person who is rapidly aging, too.I welcome Lord Sutherland and ask him to say a few words of introduction.
Lord Sutherland of Houndwood (Scotland's Futures Forum Aging Project Board):
I noted that you are a director of the futures forum, convener, and I hold that to your credit rather than hold you to account for it. I welcome the opportun...
Christine May:
Lab
Only among the deserving.
Lord Sutherland:
There is an optimist. I like optimism in politicians; it is very important.The methods that were used by those who carried out the work under Robert Rae's di...
The Convener:
SNP
Thank you very much indeed. That was excellent. The purpose of these round-table discussions at the Enterprise and Culture Committee is to identify some of t...
Lord Sutherland:
The report did not focus on that in detail, so there is no special set of research evidence, but I am happy to give you my tuppenceworth if you want. I chair...
The Convener:
SNP
The committee's remit includes science policy, so that is highly relevant.
Susan Deacon (Edinburgh East and Musselburgh) (Lab):
Lab
Are we moving seamlessly on to the round-table discussion?
The Convener:
SNP
Yes.
Susan Deacon:
Lab
I want to pick up where the convener left off, not by asking a question, but by commenting on the thinking behind the report. The report is extremely helpful...
The Convener:
SNP
That is a good issue on which to broaden out the discussion. I will come back to Stewart Sutherland in a minute, but I should now introduce all the other par...
Lord Sutherland:
I will be quick. We did not set out to analyse in detail some of the additional costs because, as Susan Deacon said, much of that work has been done and ther...
The Convener:
SNP
Does anyone else want to respond? I cannot believe that David Manion does not want to.
David Manion (Age Concern Scotland):
I am the chief executive of Age Concern Scotland. It is a great pity that Professor Phil Hanlon is not with us to provide his insights on public health-relat...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
My question follows on quite neatly from Susan Deacon's question on costs. The idea that an aging population will be a problem for the Chancellor of the Exch...
The Convener:
SNP
We should also distinguish between the retirement age and the pension age, which are not necessarily the same thing.
Tara Brady (B&Q plc):
As the employment relations and diversity manager for B&Q, I guess that I come from a very pro place. We believe that there are significant commercial benefi...
Christine May:
Lab
Could I pick up on something on page 16 of the report? Lord Sutherland referred to intergenerational well-being and the need for older people to mentor young...
Tara Brady:
A related question that I am often asked is how our older employees feel when they are managed by somebody younger. It is a common stereotype that it is a go...
The Convener:
SNP
A former boss of mine used to say, "Age doesn't make you a sage. It just makes you an old man."
David Manion:
I would like to say something about future costs. If we do not do something, the costs will be even worse, and it is the cost of not doing something that we ...
Christine May:
Lab
That is an extremely interesting point and I suspect that some of my colleagues will pick it up, but I will focus for one more moment on mentoring.In a schem...
Lord Sutherland:
Absolutely. We should look for such examples of good practice and, where appropriate, replicate them. It is not easy for people to move into the workforce, e...
Ian Naismith (Scottish Widows):
I am the head of pensions market development at Scottish Widows. We have examined employer attitudes and health. One aspect that we have examined closely is ...
The Convener:
SNP
Is part of that the fact that in many parts of Scotland—particularly parts of Glasgow—male life expectancy might be 58 or 63, so men in those areas cannot ex...
Ian Naismith:
Yes—that is probably an element. We did not examine cities specifically, but we did not find appreciable differences across the salary range on the age to wh...
Shiona Baird (North East Scotland) (Green):
Green
The report is fascinating and I would like to pick up on many issues. I wonder whether the point that was made is just a question of perception. People may f...
The Convener:
SNP
I will bring in Linda Boyes at this stage, as the Scottish Council Foundation has probably considered some of those points. I will then invite Fiona Hird, fr...