Committee
Enterprise and Culture Committee, 16 Jan 2007
16 Jan 2007 · S2 · Enterprise and Culture Committee
Item of business
“Growing older and wiser together—A futures view on positive ageing”
Tara Brady (B&Q plc):
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As the employment relations and diversity manager for B&Q, I guess that I come from a very pro place. We believe that there are significant commercial benefits from employing not just older workers but people from the full spectrum of ages. To give some perspective on the size of B&Q's business, let me explain that we employ about 38,000 people, of whom about 24 per cent are over 50 and, balancing that, about 22 per cent are under the age of 24.Our journey towards age diversity started over 15 years ago, when we started to recognise many of the salient points that are made in the report. As part of our people strategy, we wanted to attract the best talent. To do that, we had to consider people from different places and older workers were a key group for us to consider.We came across significant challenges. It will come as no surprise to the group that published the report that we initially had to consider issues such as the extent to which older people would be able to cope in a fast-paced retail environment. Anyone who has been in a B&Q store will agree that our stores can be pretty scary in terms of size and products. We also had to consider the levels of technology and whether older people would cope with the demands as technology moves on.We gained experience from our Macclesfield store, which we staffed entirely with over-50s. I do not suggest that that is a best-practice model, but it was the right thing to do in the context of 15 years ago. Follow-up studies that were carried out by the University of Warwick have blown out of the water some of the stereotypes. We found that there were significant business benefits in terms of staff retention, customer service and reduced labour turnover and absenteeism. In our stores that employ people from a mixture of ages, absenteeism is much lower.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Alex Neil):
SNP
It is 2 o'clock and most members who will attend the meeting are here, so I welcome everybody to the Enterprise and Culture Committee's second meeting in 200...
Christine May (Central Fife) (Lab):
Lab
Can we debate that?
The Convener:
SNP
Perhaps I should declare an interest as a person who is rapidly aging, too.I welcome Lord Sutherland and ask him to say a few words of introduction.
Lord Sutherland of Houndwood (Scotland's Futures Forum Aging Project Board):
I noted that you are a director of the futures forum, convener, and I hold that to your credit rather than hold you to account for it. I welcome the opportun...
Christine May:
Lab
Only among the deserving.
Lord Sutherland:
There is an optimist. I like optimism in politicians; it is very important.The methods that were used by those who carried out the work under Robert Rae's di...
The Convener:
SNP
Thank you very much indeed. That was excellent. The purpose of these round-table discussions at the Enterprise and Culture Committee is to identify some of t...
Lord Sutherland:
The report did not focus on that in detail, so there is no special set of research evidence, but I am happy to give you my tuppenceworth if you want. I chair...
The Convener:
SNP
The committee's remit includes science policy, so that is highly relevant.
Susan Deacon (Edinburgh East and Musselburgh) (Lab):
Lab
Are we moving seamlessly on to the round-table discussion?
The Convener:
SNP
Yes.
Susan Deacon:
Lab
I want to pick up where the convener left off, not by asking a question, but by commenting on the thinking behind the report. The report is extremely helpful...
The Convener:
SNP
That is a good issue on which to broaden out the discussion. I will come back to Stewart Sutherland in a minute, but I should now introduce all the other par...
Lord Sutherland:
I will be quick. We did not set out to analyse in detail some of the additional costs because, as Susan Deacon said, much of that work has been done and ther...
The Convener:
SNP
Does anyone else want to respond? I cannot believe that David Manion does not want to.
David Manion (Age Concern Scotland):
I am the chief executive of Age Concern Scotland. It is a great pity that Professor Phil Hanlon is not with us to provide his insights on public health-relat...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
My question follows on quite neatly from Susan Deacon's question on costs. The idea that an aging population will be a problem for the Chancellor of the Exch...
The Convener:
SNP
We should also distinguish between the retirement age and the pension age, which are not necessarily the same thing.
Tara Brady (B&Q plc):
As the employment relations and diversity manager for B&Q, I guess that I come from a very pro place. We believe that there are significant commercial benefi...
Christine May:
Lab
Could I pick up on something on page 16 of the report? Lord Sutherland referred to intergenerational well-being and the need for older people to mentor young...
Tara Brady:
A related question that I am often asked is how our older employees feel when they are managed by somebody younger. It is a common stereotype that it is a go...
The Convener:
SNP
A former boss of mine used to say, "Age doesn't make you a sage. It just makes you an old man."
David Manion:
I would like to say something about future costs. If we do not do something, the costs will be even worse, and it is the cost of not doing something that we ...
Christine May:
Lab
That is an extremely interesting point and I suspect that some of my colleagues will pick it up, but I will focus for one more moment on mentoring.In a schem...
Lord Sutherland:
Absolutely. We should look for such examples of good practice and, where appropriate, replicate them. It is not easy for people to move into the workforce, e...
Ian Naismith (Scottish Widows):
I am the head of pensions market development at Scottish Widows. We have examined employer attitudes and health. One aspect that we have examined closely is ...
The Convener:
SNP
Is part of that the fact that in many parts of Scotland—particularly parts of Glasgow—male life expectancy might be 58 or 63, so men in those areas cannot ex...
Ian Naismith:
Yes—that is probably an element. We did not examine cities specifically, but we did not find appreciable differences across the salary range on the age to wh...
Shiona Baird (North East Scotland) (Green):
Green
The report is fascinating and I would like to pick up on many issues. I wonder whether the point that was made is just a question of perception. People may f...
The Convener:
SNP
I will bring in Linda Boyes at this stage, as the Scottish Council Foundation has probably considered some of those points. I will then invite Fiona Hird, fr...