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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 02 May 2013

02 May 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Community Justice System
Hepburn, Jamie SNP Cumbernauld and Kilsyth Watch on SPTV
I welcome the debate and, like Sandra White, I am quite happy to speak on an important subject. It is important to get the structure to deliver community justice right. As was stated at the outset, the debate is an open one in which members can contribute their views, and it is good to know that the Government will take those on board.

Various levels of criminal activity make the lives of the people we represent a misery. It is appropriate that those who commit the most serious offences and who pose a danger to society face a period of incarceration. However, there is a vital role for community justice if we are to ensure that those who have caused damage to their community are in some way seen to be giving something back to that community.

In my area, the local authority has an effective restorative justice team. There are various examples of how it has ensured that offenders on community payback orders who have been referred to it work and give something back.

I want to speak about a positive example. The cabinet secretary is aware of it as he came to visit the Carron valley medieval fort that the Clanranald Trust for Scotland is building. The initiative will be important for educational purposes and local tourism and has involved a huge amount of work. I was pleased to see that North Lanarkshire Council has allowed its restorative justice team to assist the trust in making—I should give it its proper name—the Duncarron fort a reality. Indeed, even Falkirk Council has contributed in that way, too.

I mention that not only because it allows me to highlight an important project in my constituency—which is always positive—but because my experience of the restorative justice teams’ engagement with the project has demonstrated how that method can work. Those who were involved through that mechanism not only were giving something back to their community, as I mentioned; some of them learned something about themselves. Some of those who were sent there under a community payback order returned once their sentence was complete. That is important to mention, because it demonstrates that community justice can rehabilitate, too.

Often, community justice is seen as the soft option. I do not accept that: it is an effective mechanism for delivering justice. We know that prison does not always act as an effective deterrent to reducing reoffending. Therefore, we must be prepared to do something else, and it is good that the Scottish Government has embraced the concept of community justice.

In the introduction to the consultation paper, the cabinet secretary wrote:

“Public spending should aim to prevent rather than only react to crimes and harms. This approach will lead to better results in the long term for individuals, families and communities and save money for the public purse.”

I entirely agree. The Scottish Government has set out that reoffending rates are at the lowest for a decade and Rod Campbell pointed out that recorded crime is at a 37-year low. We should not only celebrate that fact but look to build on that record. Therefore, it is right to look at the structure for delivering community justice.

Reference has been made to the Audit Scotland reports, the commission on women offenders report and the consultation paper. I am also aware that the Justice Committee published in March its “Inquiry into purposeful activity in prisons” report. It is clear that the work that the Scottish Government is undertaking to redesign community justice is not being done in isolation; rather, it is building on work that has gone before it. I hear the concerns about the timing of this debate—I appreciate that it was mild criticism—but I think that we should be rather relaxed about having the debate today.

I turn quickly to the three options that are set out in the paper. Option A is the enhanced CJA model. Malcolm Chisholm made the point that that would avoid institutional upheaval. That said—Sandra White made this point too—I am not entirely convinced that CJAs are very visible entities. I am not particularly aware of the CJA that covers my area.

Option B is the local authority model. Clearly local authorities are very visible entities and have a clear line of accountability. However, Colin Keir asked the fair question whether they are equipped to provide all the necessary support.

Option C is the single service model, which Elish Angiolini has posited. Given her reputation, we have to take it seriously.

All the approaches have merits, as might option D. I am afraid that I am going to sit on the fence just now, but I look forward to the Scottish Government taking this work further forward and to seeing what type of model emerges. I wish the cabinet secretary well in that task.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-06433, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, on redesigning the community justice system.
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill) SNP
I know that the mood in the chamber is more sombre than usual, given events and the debate that has just taken place, but I am grateful that members have agr...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Can the cabinet secretary clarify whether, if option B was chosen, consideration would be given to the fact that some local authorities that have areas of ve...
Kenny MacAskill SNP
Those matters will have to be discussed in detail. The funding formula that we use takes account of the additional pressure that many areas face as a result ...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s closing comments. We will take up his offer of further discussion outwith the forum of parliamentary debate.There is genera...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I think that Lewis Macdonald will be aware that, with the new governor at Polmont prison, there is a new culture and determination that the expression “purpo...
Lewis Macdonald Lab
I am grateful for that intervention. I do not doubt for a moment the commitment of many leaders in the Scottish Prison Service to achieving precisely that ch...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome the debate because it gives Parliament the opportunity to examine why the current arrangement for strategic and operational responsibility with reg...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We move to the open debate, with speeches of six minutes. We have a little bit of time in hand for interventions.15:30
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
This week, I had the good fortune to be briefed by Rob Strachan, the chief officer of Lothian and Borders community justice authority. It is important to sta...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
The debate’s timing is rather unfortunate. The consultation principle has always been central to the Parliament, and it would have been better to wait until ...
Colin Keir (Edinburgh Western) (SNP) SNP
It is clear that there is a fair degree of agreement across the chamber this afternoon. I associate myself with many of the comments that other members have ...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I acknowledge the speeches from all members thus far and I associate myself with many of the comments that have been made. I welcome the cabinet secretary’s ...
Margaret Mitchell Con
Does Graeme Pearson agree that the meaningful and purposeful activity that he refers to can be delivered in so-called short-term sentences? Putting people in...
Graeme Pearson Lab
Yes. When a prisoner is in custody 24/7, there are always avenues for delivery, if there is the will to deliver, the necessary support, the health interventi...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) SNP
Recorded crime is at a 37-year low, and the number of first-time offenders is falling. However, around half of the number who receive a short custodial sent...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
We know that the economic and social cost of offending and reoffending is immense, and we pour so many resources into picking up the pieces. Lives are ruined...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
Perhaps I am the only one—I do not know—but I am pleased to speak in the debate. I take on board what everyone has said, but the more we discuss the communit...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Today’s debate seems premature given that the consultation finished only two days ago and we are awaiting the responses and conclusions. However, like other ...
Sandra White SNP
Perhaps Mary Fee will be able to educate me on the CJAs. She said that various members of CJAs had contacted her. Would she say that the CJAs work differentl...
Mary Fee Lab
I think that CJAs work in broadly the same manner in different local authorities. I am perhaps fortunate in that I was a local authority member before I came...
Christine Grahame SNP
Can I tempt Mary Fee with option D?
Mary Fee Lab
I thank Christine Grahame for her intervention—I will hold my decision on option D for a bit longer, if that is all right.Before the debate, I had the opport...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
It has been highlighted already that the total economic and social cost of reoffending in Scotland is about £3 billion a year. According to the Audit Scotlan...
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the debate and, like Sandra White, I am quite happy to speak on an important subject. It is important to get the structure to deliver community jus...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
We move to closing speeches. I call Annabel Goldie, who has six minutes or thereby.16:36
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome both the Scottish Government’s recent consultation and this afternoon’s debate on redesigning the community justice system. That matters not only b...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I reiterate what other members have said about the timing of today’s debate. Two days after the closure of the consultation is perhaps a little too soon to d...
Kenny MacAskill SNP
Did the member not listen when we said quite clearly that the proposal—whether it is A, B or C—would not come into effect until the spring of 2016? Given tha...
Jenny Marra Lab
Fanciful or not, those are not my words but the words of a leader of a community justice authority, and they are a response to the cabinet secretary’s motion...