Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 02 May 2013
02 May 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Community Justice System
I thank Christine Grahame for her intervention—I will hold my decision on option D for a bit longer, if that is all right.
Before the debate, I had the opportunity to preview two responses from CJAs in West Scotland. The south-west Scotland CJA has concerns that the overall approach to redesign
“will not deliver the changes required, for a number of reasons”.
It goes on to list the reasons for its concerns, stating that
“The redesign does not appear to be connected to other reforms or policy developments”,
such as getting it right for every child, the road to recovery and health and social care reform, among others that it names. It states that
“The redesign has removed the opportunity to capitalise on the current momentum and positive direction of reducing crime, convictions, and re-offending”
and, most critically, that
“the whole consultation is based on a false premise that change will in itself deliver the required improvements.”
The main theme of the south-west Scotland CJA’s response is that none of the stated options will deliver the 15 key characteristics, support the four pillars of public sector reform or tackle the key barriers to progress.
The CJA offers instead its own model, which aims to retain the best existing arrangements and to continue to build on good progress and the expertise developed by CJAs, as well as address the barriers to progress that CJAs have individually and collectively experienced over the years since their inception. Once the Government evaluates all the consultation responses, I look forward to its response to the south-west Scotland CJA.
The north Strathclyde CJA also expresses concern that the consultation and redesign will reduce the current momentum towards reducing crime and reoffending. If we are serious about continuing that progress, the Government has to address those concerns as quickly as possible. Indeed, many of the concerns highlighted by the south-west Scotland CJA are shared by the north Strathclyde CJA. Another major issue with the redesign is the lack of costing provided so far, and both CJAs link that with the warning offered by the Christie commission.
I turn from the consultation to discuss why we need strong community justice, an effective prison system and well-designed throughcare. Reoffending rates are too high, which is a fact that we are all too familiar with hearing. However, what is being done to reduce the rates? Freedom of information requests to the SPS show that a total of seven rehabilitation programmes are used in Scottish prisons. However, each prison will run no more than four of the seven and most will provide only one or two programmes, with limited spaces. When we consider the annual funding and the places provided, it is not surprising to hear that reoffending is at the level that it is. One programme receives annual funding of £188,000 for 52 places, which means that the total cost per prisoner is approximately £3,300.
Last month, I met a group of ex-offenders, and one of the key themes that arose from that was the lack of purposeful activity and joined-up working that they had experienced. For example, one ex-offender told me that he had decided to take up an education course to improve his chances of employment on release. He received £6 per week for attending the course, but if he had taken up a vocational course, he would have received £15 per week, with the possibility of a bonus. There is therefore no incentive to take up educational activity, which is deeply worrying, given the literacy levels in prisons. Also, when he completed the course, he was transferred between prisons and he has yet to receive his certificate, which prospective employers require. That is an example of the lack of joined-up working.
If we are serious about reducing reoffending, throughcare should start as soon as the offender enters prison, as many feel the need to reoffend on release because they have little support or money, or they do not have a home to go to. We on the Labour benches support the need for reform, but it needs to be reform that meets the needs of offenders, their families and the community as a whole.
16:22
Before the debate, I had the opportunity to preview two responses from CJAs in West Scotland. The south-west Scotland CJA has concerns that the overall approach to redesign
“will not deliver the changes required, for a number of reasons”.
It goes on to list the reasons for its concerns, stating that
“The redesign does not appear to be connected to other reforms or policy developments”,
such as getting it right for every child, the road to recovery and health and social care reform, among others that it names. It states that
“The redesign has removed the opportunity to capitalise on the current momentum and positive direction of reducing crime, convictions, and re-offending”
and, most critically, that
“the whole consultation is based on a false premise that change will in itself deliver the required improvements.”
The main theme of the south-west Scotland CJA’s response is that none of the stated options will deliver the 15 key characteristics, support the four pillars of public sector reform or tackle the key barriers to progress.
The CJA offers instead its own model, which aims to retain the best existing arrangements and to continue to build on good progress and the expertise developed by CJAs, as well as address the barriers to progress that CJAs have individually and collectively experienced over the years since their inception. Once the Government evaluates all the consultation responses, I look forward to its response to the south-west Scotland CJA.
The north Strathclyde CJA also expresses concern that the consultation and redesign will reduce the current momentum towards reducing crime and reoffending. If we are serious about continuing that progress, the Government has to address those concerns as quickly as possible. Indeed, many of the concerns highlighted by the south-west Scotland CJA are shared by the north Strathclyde CJA. Another major issue with the redesign is the lack of costing provided so far, and both CJAs link that with the warning offered by the Christie commission.
I turn from the consultation to discuss why we need strong community justice, an effective prison system and well-designed throughcare. Reoffending rates are too high, which is a fact that we are all too familiar with hearing. However, what is being done to reduce the rates? Freedom of information requests to the SPS show that a total of seven rehabilitation programmes are used in Scottish prisons. However, each prison will run no more than four of the seven and most will provide only one or two programmes, with limited spaces. When we consider the annual funding and the places provided, it is not surprising to hear that reoffending is at the level that it is. One programme receives annual funding of £188,000 for 52 places, which means that the total cost per prisoner is approximately £3,300.
Last month, I met a group of ex-offenders, and one of the key themes that arose from that was the lack of purposeful activity and joined-up working that they had experienced. For example, one ex-offender told me that he had decided to take up an education course to improve his chances of employment on release. He received £6 per week for attending the course, but if he had taken up a vocational course, he would have received £15 per week, with the possibility of a bonus. There is therefore no incentive to take up educational activity, which is deeply worrying, given the literacy levels in prisons. Also, when he completed the course, he was transferred between prisons and he has yet to receive his certificate, which prospective employers require. That is an example of the lack of joined-up working.
If we are serious about reducing reoffending, throughcare should start as soon as the offender enters prison, as many feel the need to reoffend on release because they have little support or money, or they do not have a home to go to. We on the Labour benches support the need for reform, but it needs to be reform that meets the needs of offenders, their families and the community as a whole.
16:22
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-06433, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, on redesigning the community justice system.
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
I know that the mood in the chamber is more sombre than usual, given events and the debate that has just taken place, but I am grateful that members have agr...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Can the cabinet secretary clarify whether, if option B was chosen, consideration would be given to the fact that some local authorities that have areas of ve...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Those matters will have to be discussed in detail. The funding formula that we use takes account of the additional pressure that many areas face as a result ...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s closing comments. We will take up his offer of further discussion outwith the forum of parliamentary debate.There is genera...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
I think that Lewis Macdonald will be aware that, with the new governor at Polmont prison, there is a new culture and determination that the expression “purpo...
Lewis Macdonald
Lab
I am grateful for that intervention. I do not doubt for a moment the commitment of many leaders in the Scottish Prison Service to achieving precisely that ch...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
I welcome the debate because it gives Parliament the opportunity to examine why the current arrangement for strategic and operational responsibility with reg...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
We move to the open debate, with speeches of six minutes. We have a little bit of time in hand for interventions.15:30
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
This week, I had the good fortune to be briefed by Rob Strachan, the chief officer of Lothian and Borders community justice authority. It is important to sta...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
The debate’s timing is rather unfortunate. The consultation principle has always been central to the Parliament, and it would have been better to wait until ...
Colin Keir (Edinburgh Western) (SNP)
SNP
It is clear that there is a fair degree of agreement across the chamber this afternoon. I associate myself with many of the comments that other members have ...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I acknowledge the speeches from all members thus far and I associate myself with many of the comments that have been made. I welcome the cabinet secretary’s ...
Margaret Mitchell
Con
Does Graeme Pearson agree that the meaningful and purposeful activity that he refers to can be delivered in so-called short-term sentences? Putting people in...
Graeme Pearson
Lab
Yes. When a prisoner is in custody 24/7, there are always avenues for delivery, if there is the will to deliver, the necessary support, the health interventi...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP)
SNP
Recorded crime is at a 37-year low, and the number of first-time offenders is falling. However, around half of the number who receive a short custodial sent...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
We know that the economic and social cost of offending and reoffending is immense, and we pour so many resources into picking up the pieces. Lives are ruined...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
Perhaps I am the only one—I do not know—but I am pleased to speak in the debate. I take on board what everyone has said, but the more we discuss the communit...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Today’s debate seems premature given that the consultation finished only two days ago and we are awaiting the responses and conclusions. However, like other ...
Sandra White
SNP
Perhaps Mary Fee will be able to educate me on the CJAs. She said that various members of CJAs had contacted her. Would she say that the CJAs work differentl...
Mary Fee
Lab
I think that CJAs work in broadly the same manner in different local authorities. I am perhaps fortunate in that I was a local authority member before I came...
Christine Grahame
SNP
Can I tempt Mary Fee with option D?
Mary Fee
Lab
I thank Christine Grahame for her intervention—I will hold my decision on option D for a bit longer, if that is all right.Before the debate, I had the opport...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
SNP
It has been highlighted already that the total economic and social cost of reoffending in Scotland is about £3 billion a year. According to the Audit Scotlan...
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the debate and, like Sandra White, I am quite happy to speak on an important subject. It is important to get the structure to deliver community jus...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
We move to closing speeches. I call Annabel Goldie, who has six minutes or thereby.16:36
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
I welcome both the Scottish Government’s recent consultation and this afternoon’s debate on redesigning the community justice system. That matters not only b...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I reiterate what other members have said about the timing of today’s debate. Two days after the closure of the consultation is perhaps a little too soon to d...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Did the member not listen when we said quite clearly that the proposal—whether it is A, B or C—would not come into effect until the spring of 2016? Given tha...
Jenny Marra
Lab
Fanciful or not, those are not my words but the words of a leader of a community justice authority, and they are a response to the cabinet secretary’s motion...