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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 02 May 2013

02 May 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Community Justice System
McInnes, Alison LD North East Scotland Watch on SPTV
We know that the economic and social cost of offending and reoffending is immense, and we pour so many resources into picking up the pieces. Lives are ruined, communities are blighted and potential is lost.

Considering those who are in our criminal justice system, we can see that we have failed to get to grips with the underlying problems—mental health problems, a history of abuse, addiction, poverty, exclusion from education and being in the care system. We know what lies behind the chaotic lives that lead to prison. Worse, we also know what makes a difference. Reoffending rates remain stubbornly high, however.

Liberal Democrats want safer communities, people brought to justice when they offend and robust community justice schemes. We also believe that everyone deserves a chance to get back on track. A robust but compassionate targeted community justice system that is flexible enough to respond to individual needs will benefit everyone in Scotland.

I agree with the cabinet secretary that the status quo is clearly not an option. The Angiolini and Audit Scotland reports both highlighted serious shortcomings in the operation of the community justice system, and the Justice Committee has seen clear evidence of failings in the system. The Angiolini report had some frank words to say about the lack of leadership up until now. For sure, it will take strong and sustained leadership, both nationally and locally, to make a difference.

Audit Scotland found a mismatch between the services that are provided and what we know works in tackling reoffending. It found that access to and availability of services varies significantly throughout Scotland. While CJAs have been successful in bringing people together, Audit Scotland reported that the way in which they were set up and the inflexible funding arrangements that are in place have limited their effectiveness. Audit Scotland concludes that funding for community justice services is particularly inflexible and does not encourage reductions in reoffending. Only a small amount of funding is currently available for local discretion, and the funding is based largely on historical activity.

The CJAs report to ministers and have regional budgets to dispense to local authorities, but they also have little discretion and a lack of clear governance arrangements. I acknowledge that good work is going on, but I cannot legitimately argue that what we have at the moment is the right model.

I agree with the Labour Party that although it is good to have an exploratory debate on this complex issue, it would be useful if we could come back to it once we have all had the opportunity to review the consultation responses.

Faced with the fact that a number of the other agencies involved—the Scottish Court Service, the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service, the Scottish Prison Service and now the police—operate nationally, some might be tempted to say that we should also have a national community justice organisation. I am instinctively uncomfortable about that option. Like it or not, a complex web of societal interactions need to come together to prevent reoffending and ensure that community justice disposals provide both punishment and alternatives. A national agency—possibly remote and bureaucratic—is unlikely to be able to maximise those connections.

Audit Scotland made much in its report of the number of people round the table at CJA meetings. In fact, we need everyone working together. The real problem at the moment is that no one has the proper clout to bring about the change that is needed.

Criminal justice social work is rightly part of the local government family. We need to develop and build on those close links between criminal justice services, social work, education, drug and alcohol services, disability services and of course the third sector. Those connections have meant that there has been progress on tackling the root causes of crime. I am concerned that removing criminal justice social work from the local authority family would be expensive and disruptive and might lead to the loss of integration with other local services.

On the other hand, disbanding the CJAs completely and returning responsibility to our 32 separate local authorities will not address the current problems of poor integration and postcode-based justice services. What we need is a structure that facilitates a tailored, community-based response, while ensuring that a much more rigorous approach is taken to the standard of service that we should expect to see throughout Scotland. I am probably with Christine Grahame on this issue. None of the three options outlined in the consultation document seems quite to fit the bill. I suspect that the answer lies in a hybrid form of them.

It seems at this stage that the best way forward would be to reform the CJAs by ensuring that they have the right—indeed the responsibility—to plan, co-ordinate and monitor services in their area. Clearer governance, proper control of budgets and building on what is good in CJAs is likely to bring about change most effectively. However, there also needs to be a national strategy—one that sets standards and ensures equality of access to services, especially in relation to specific groups such as sex offenders, young offenders and women prisoners. Leadership needs to be provided nationally to champion all the change that needs to come about. It might be that a federation of the CJAs working in tandem with the Government could drive that forward; if necessary, we could have joint commissioning of regional specialisms at the same time. However, if we are to reduce reoffending drastically, at the heart of it all has to be local, community-based solutions.

Over and over again at the Justice Committee we have heard how patchy throughcare is for short-term prisoners because there is no statutory provision for them, yet we know that those prisoners are most at risk of reoffending. I genuinely urge the cabinet secretary to use this opportunity, this year, to extend statutory throughcare to all prisoners. He would have our support for that.

Recent research by the Prison Reform Trust concluded that it is important for offenders to take responsibility for their own resettlement. Right now, there is no dialogue with or involvement of offenders or ex-offenders. We want that to change.

Although the Liberal Democrats are open to further discussion on the best way forward, we are clear that there must be improvements in how community justice services are funded, how performance is measured and how services for offenders are planned, designed and managed.

16:09

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-06433, in the name of Kenny MacAskill, on redesigning the community justice system.
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill) SNP
I know that the mood in the chamber is more sombre than usual, given events and the debate that has just taken place, but I am grateful that members have agr...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Can the cabinet secretary clarify whether, if option B was chosen, consideration would be given to the fact that some local authorities that have areas of ve...
Kenny MacAskill SNP
Those matters will have to be discussed in detail. The funding formula that we use takes account of the additional pressure that many areas face as a result ...
Lewis Macdonald (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s closing comments. We will take up his offer of further discussion outwith the forum of parliamentary debate.There is genera...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I think that Lewis Macdonald will be aware that, with the new governor at Polmont prison, there is a new culture and determination that the expression “purpo...
Lewis Macdonald Lab
I am grateful for that intervention. I do not doubt for a moment the commitment of many leaders in the Scottish Prison Service to achieving precisely that ch...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome the debate because it gives Parliament the opportunity to examine why the current arrangement for strategic and operational responsibility with reg...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We move to the open debate, with speeches of six minutes. We have a little bit of time in hand for interventions.15:30
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
This week, I had the good fortune to be briefed by Rob Strachan, the chief officer of Lothian and Borders community justice authority. It is important to sta...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
The debate’s timing is rather unfortunate. The consultation principle has always been central to the Parliament, and it would have been better to wait until ...
Colin Keir (Edinburgh Western) (SNP) SNP
It is clear that there is a fair degree of agreement across the chamber this afternoon. I associate myself with many of the comments that other members have ...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I acknowledge the speeches from all members thus far and I associate myself with many of the comments that have been made. I welcome the cabinet secretary’s ...
Margaret Mitchell Con
Does Graeme Pearson agree that the meaningful and purposeful activity that he refers to can be delivered in so-called short-term sentences? Putting people in...
Graeme Pearson Lab
Yes. When a prisoner is in custody 24/7, there are always avenues for delivery, if there is the will to deliver, the necessary support, the health interventi...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) SNP
Recorded crime is at a 37-year low, and the number of first-time offenders is falling. However, around half of the number who receive a short custodial sent...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
We know that the economic and social cost of offending and reoffending is immense, and we pour so many resources into picking up the pieces. Lives are ruined...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
Perhaps I am the only one—I do not know—but I am pleased to speak in the debate. I take on board what everyone has said, but the more we discuss the communit...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Today’s debate seems premature given that the consultation finished only two days ago and we are awaiting the responses and conclusions. However, like other ...
Sandra White SNP
Perhaps Mary Fee will be able to educate me on the CJAs. She said that various members of CJAs had contacted her. Would she say that the CJAs work differentl...
Mary Fee Lab
I think that CJAs work in broadly the same manner in different local authorities. I am perhaps fortunate in that I was a local authority member before I came...
Christine Grahame SNP
Can I tempt Mary Fee with option D?
Mary Fee Lab
I thank Christine Grahame for her intervention—I will hold my decision on option D for a bit longer, if that is all right.Before the debate, I had the opport...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
It has been highlighted already that the total economic and social cost of reoffending in Scotland is about £3 billion a year. According to the Audit Scotlan...
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the debate and, like Sandra White, I am quite happy to speak on an important subject. It is important to get the structure to deliver community jus...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
We move to closing speeches. I call Annabel Goldie, who has six minutes or thereby.16:36
Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome both the Scottish Government’s recent consultation and this afternoon’s debate on redesigning the community justice system. That matters not only b...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I reiterate what other members have said about the timing of today’s debate. Two days after the closure of the consultation is perhaps a little too soon to d...
Kenny MacAskill SNP
Did the member not listen when we said quite clearly that the proposal—whether it is A, B or C—would not come into effect until the spring of 2016? Given tha...
Jenny Marra Lab
Fanciful or not, those are not my words but the words of a leader of a community justice authority, and they are a response to the cabinet secretary’s motion...